[Ads-l] "You can't live with 'em..."

Mon May 4 21:37:51 UTC 2026

Excellent question, JL. Wonderful work, Stephen and Rich!
Garson

On Mon, May 4, 2026 at 9:08 AM Rich Lowenthal
<000018596069864c-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
>
> The original text reads,
>
> Multis et eruditis viris audientibus legebatur oratio Metelli Numidici,
> gravis ac diserti viri, quam in censura dixit ad populum de ducendis
> uxoribus, cum eum ad matrimonia capessenda hortaretur.  In ea oratione
> ita scriptum fuit: "Si sine uxore pati⁠ possemus, Quirites, omnes⁠ ea
> molestia careremus; set quoniam ita natura tradidit, ut nec cum illis
> satis commode, nec sine illis ullo modo vivi possit, saluti perpetuae
> potius quam brevi voluptati consulendum est."
>
> - Aulus Gellius, "Noctes Atticae," Liber I VI.2
>
> Translation:
>
> A number of learned men were listening to the reading of the speech
> which Metellus Numidicus,⁠ an earnest and eloquent man, delivered to the
> people when he was censor, On Marriage, urging them to be ready to
> undertake its obligations.  In that speech these words were written: "If
> we could get on without a wife, Romans, we would all avoid that
> annoyance; but since nature has ordained that we can neither live very
> comfortably with them nor at all without them, we must take thought for
> our lasting well-being rather than for the pleasure of the moment."
>
> Text and translation at
> https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Gellius/home.html
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From "Stephen Goranson"
> <00001dd3d6fc15d3-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> To ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Date 5/4/2026 08:50:36
> Subject Re: "You can't live with 'em..."
>
> >https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Living_Age/qzpFAQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=metellus+you+cannot+live+with+them&pg=PA66&printsec=frontcover
> >
> >"...we cannot live with women comfortably, nor without them at all...."
> >Metellus Numidicus
> >April, 1851 66/1
> >
> >On Mon, May 4, 2026 at 8:22 AM Stephen Goranson <goransonsc at gmail.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>  By Metullus, Metellus may have been intended.
> >>
> >>  On Mon, May 4, 2026 at 7:07 AM Jonathan Lighter <
> >>  00001aad181a2549-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >>>  Splendid work, Garson.
> >>>
> >>>  But who was "Metullus"?
> >>>
> >>>  JL
> >>>
> >>>  On Sun, May 3, 2026 at 7:58 PM ADSGarson O'Toole
> >>>  <00001aa1be50b751-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
> >>>  >
> >>>  > Fun topic, JL. Here is an instance using "we" instead of "you".
> >>>  >
> >>>  > [ref] 1900 April 5, Oakland Times, Banquet to the Visitors, Quote Page
> >>>  > 1, Column 1, Oakland, California. (Newspapers_com) [/ref]
> >>>  > https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-oakland-times-women/196828226/
> >>>  >
> >>>  > [Begin excerpt]
> >>>  > And we have their descendants about us, continued the speaker, and we
> >>>  > all agree with that cheerful cynic who said, "These women, God bless
> >>>  > them, we can't live with them and we can't live without them."
> >>>  > [End excerpt]
> >>>  >
> >>>  > Here is an instance with "wives".
> >>>  >
> >>>  > [ref] 1901 August 31, The Montana Catholic, What Men Have Said About
> >>>  > Wives, Quote Page 8, Column 6, Butte, Montana. (Newspapers_com) [/ref]
> >>>  > https://www.newspapers.com/article/montana-catholic-live/196826972/
> >>>  >
> >>>  > [Begin excerpt]
> >>>  > We cannot live happily with our wives, yet we cannot live happily
> >>>  > without them. -- Metullus.
> >>>  > [End excerpt]
> >>>  >
> >>>  > Here is a precursor referring to "the wicked" instead of women in 1888.
> >>>  >
> >>>  > [ref] 1888, Meditations For Every Day in the Year from the Christian
> >>>  > Considerations of Father John Crasset, Translated by The Very Rev. T.
> >>>  > B. Snow, Quote Page 166 and 167, R. Washbourne, London. (Google Books
> >>>  > Full View) link [/ref]
> >>>  >
> >>>  https://www.google.com/books/edition/Meditations_for_every_day_in_the_year_fr/j6k4Pv66FzoC
> >>>  ?
> >>>  >
> >>>  > [Begin excerpt]
> >>>  > The wicked help to sanctify the good,
> >>>  > But the good cease to be good,
> >>>  > If they are pleased with their company.
> >>>  > You cannot live without them,
> >>>  > But you ought not to live with them,
> >>>  > Nor seek their society.
> >>>  > [End excerpt]
> >>>  >
> >>>  > Garson
> >>>  >
> >>>  > On Sat, May 2, 2026 at 3:38 PM Jonathan Lighter
> >>>  > <00001aad181a2549-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
> >>>  > >
> >>>  > > 1907  Maude A. Bpmberger _Colonial Recipes_ (N.Y.: Neale) 105: Here's
> >>>  to
> >>>  > > the women - God bless 'em,/ You can't live with 'em and you can't live
> >>>  > > without 'em."
> >>>  > >
> >>>  > > 1908 _Wichita Eagle_ (May 24) 12 [Newspapers.com]: Here's to the woman
> >>>  > > [sic] - God bless 'em. You can't live with 'em, and you can't live
> >>>  without
> >>>  > > 'em."
> >>>  > >
> >>>  > > JL
> >>>  > > --
> >>>  > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> >>>  truth."
> >>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
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