Witnessed finger-pointing by an Elder

[Amy Dahlstrom]

thanks, Mary Ann, how interesting!

I wanted to report back to you all.  I spoke as a discussant on Saturday 
morning for a talk by John Haviland, who was talking about Tzotzil 
gestures (including pointing) and how they have been used in a home-sign 
system in a family with three deaf siblings.  I mentioned the Algonquian 
practice of pointing with the lip or chin (and described how my query on 
Wed. morning just blew up everyone's in-box with all the replies -- 
sorry, everyone!), which is so widespread.  I said that different people 
reported different reasons or motivations for the practice, but it 
seemed to have become a positive marker for native communities, 
something that sets the communities off from mainstream U.S./Canadian 
culture.   So I wondered if any of the gestures that Haviland was 
analyzing might be functioning in a similar way, as something not shared 
by the Spanish speakers of Chiapas; if so, it seemed quite fitting that 
such gestures could form the basis of a sign language for the deaf 
members of the community, reinforcing the cultural ties.  (I also had a 
few things to say about the possible discourse organization of the 
Tzotzil signing, not related to anything specifically Algonquian.)

thanks again to all of you!
Amy

On 3/11/2013 5:08 PM, Mary Ann Corbiere wrote:
> Hello everyone.
>
> By ironic coincidence, at a conference I attended this past weekend, 
> an Elder who presented some teachings to an audience of over 30 
> people, pointed with his finger 3 or 4 times at various members of the 
> audience, albeit as he was making teasing remarks about the people he 
> was pointing at. The Elder is one who is highly regarded for his 
> traditional knowledge by people in the Lake Huron region and perhaps 
> beyond (by people in other regions of Ontario or across the country).
>
> I didn't overhear any murmurs of how inappropriate some might have 
> felt this action was. (Nishnaabek usually don't hesitate to comment 
> under their breath to a friend if someone does and says something that 
> strikes them as inappropriate in some way.)
>
> Just FYI
>
> MAC
>
> >>> Anne-Marie Baraby <baraby.anne-marie at UQAM.CA> 03/09/13 4:37 PM >>>
> Hi,
> I asked about what is going on in another native language, berber 
> (tachelhit dialect) spoken in south of Morrocco and I had the 
> following answer that I translate in English:
>
> "In berber culture (south of Morocco), pointing with the finger is 
> impolite and may be perceived as aggressive (above all, when one look 
> at the person in the eyes). What is preferred in that culture is a 
> chin movement toward the person. Sometimes, one also use the hand, but 
> with opened fingers (I mean that the hand has to be opened, not 
> closed). This is an interesting matter probably linked to oral cultures."
>
> Anne-Marie Baraby
>
> Bonjour,
>
> Dans la culture berbère (sud du Maroc), pointer avec le doigt est 
> impoli et pourrait être même agressif (surtout lorsqu'on regarde la 
> personne dans les yeux). Ce qui est privilégié dans cette culture, 
> c'est le mouvement du menton en direction de la personne ciblée. 
> Parfois, on utilise aussi la main, mais avec les doigts ouverts (je 
> veux dire ici que la main doit être ouverte, et non pas fermée).
> Voilà, c'est une thématique intéressante qui est surtout liée aux 
> cultures orales.
>
> Abdallah El Mountasser
>
> Le 2013-03-06 à 08:54, Amy Dahlstrom a écrit :
>
>> Hello Algonquianists,
>>
>> I'm a discussant at an upcoming conference on gesture, and one thing 
>> I thought I would mention to the (extremely diverse) audience is the 
>> practice among at least some of the Algonquian peoples of pointing 
>> with the lips or with the chin, rather than pointing with the finger.
>>
>> I would like to ask you all how widespread this practice is.  And for 
>> native speakers (native pointers? :-) ), do you have any intuitions 
>> about why pointing with the finger is avoided?  Would it seem rude to 
>> point with the finger?  Or inappropriate in some other way?
>>
>> thanks in advance for any thoughts you can share!
>>
>> Amy
>>
>> P.S.  if you hit "reply" remember that you are replying to the whole 
>> list! :-)
>>
>



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