[Algonquiana] Prehistoric Language contact ?

Wed Nov 19 22:10:29 UTC 2014

It also depends on how far back we’re talking about. If we’re talking about the period when the ancestors of the Micmac and Maliseet entered the Maritimes, they might well have displaced speakers of some language that’s unrelated to anything we know about now. I also doubt that Iroquoian was ever spoken in that area. 

Micmac and, to a lesser degree, Maliseet-Passamaquoddy have lost a striking amount of PA lexicon, tho it has yet to be demonstrated that any of it is borrowed rather than just coined from native material.

Dave Costa

> Ah, well, if the Wendat borrowed the word for Inuit from an Algonquian language, that at least suggests that Inuktitut probably can't be completely ruled out as a potential model for the dual as well.
> 
> ᐋᐧᐱ ᑭᐦᐃᐤ
> Arok Wolvengrey
> Professor, Algonquian Languages and Linguistics and
> Department Head of Indigenous Languages, Arts and Cultures
> First Nations University of Canada
> 1 First Nations Way
> Regina, SK   S4S 7K2
>  
> phone:  (306) 790-5950 ext. 3310
> fax:      (306) 790-5995
> e-mail:  awolvengrey at fnuniv.ca
> From: John Steckley [John.Steckley at humber.ca]
> Sent: November 19, 2014 3:53 PM
> To: Wolvengrey, Arok; Danielle E. Cyr
> Cc: ALGONQUIANA at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
> Subject: RE: Re[2]: [Algonquiana] Prehistoric Language contact ?
> 
> Arok:
>  
> I think that you are probably right.  At least with presenting the forms that the dual took in Wendat it can be, as the police say, eliminated from our inquiries as a suspect.  There are a number of grammatical elements that the two languages share.  The inclusive/exclusive distinction and a locative suffix, which in Wendat usually is -ye-, come immediately to mind.  The Wendat did borrow some lexical items from Algonquians.  The word for the Inuit, which is unique to Wendat of the Iroquoian languages, and their word for caribou are two that are clearly borrowed. 
>  
> John
>  
> From: Wolvengrey, Arok [mailto:awolvengrey at firstnationsuniversity.ca] 
> Sent: November 19, 2014 4:46 PM
> To: John Steckley; Danielle E. Cyr
> Cc: ALGONQUIANA at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
> Subject: RE: Re[2]: [Algonquiana] Prehistoric Language contact ?
>  
> Again, I stand to be corrected, but it doesn't seem as if Micmac would have borrowed the actual form from anywhere - (? it seems to have narrowed its plural for use as its dual and innovated a new plural from existing lexical/grammatical material ?).  It may just have been the model from some other (non-Algonquian) language(s) that triggered its innovation.
>  
> ᐋᐧᐱ ᑭᐦᐃᐤ
> Arok Wolvengrey
> Professor, Algonquian Languages and Linguistics and
> Department Head of Indigenous Languages, Arts and Cultures
> First Nations University of Canada
> 1 First Nations Way
> Regina, SK   S4S 7K2
>  
> phone:  (306) 790-5950 ext. 3310
> fax:      (306) 790-5995
> e-mail:  awolvengrey at fnuniv.ca
> From: John Steckley [John.Steckley at humber.ca]
> Sent: November 19, 2014 3:40 PM
> To: Danielle E. Cyr
> Cc: Wolvengrey, Arok; ALGONQUIANA at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
> Subject: RE: Re[2]: [Algonquiana] Prehistoric Language contact ?
> 
> Danielle:
>  
> I don't know what I was thinking (it's late in the day and I have been in my office for most of it).  The dual also appears in the patient.  Both as agent and patient it usually takes a -yi-, with some changes caused by the sounds that appear before it.  In terms of the structure of the pronominal prefix, it comes at the end.
>  
> John
>  
> From: Danielle E. Cyr [mailto:dcyr at yorku.ca] 
> Sent: November 19, 2014 4:34 PM
> To: John Steckley
> Cc: Wolvengrey, Arok; ALGONQUIANA at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re[2]: [Algonquiana] Prehistoric Language contact ?
>  
> John and Arok,
>  
> Thanks for your quick reply. Researching phonetic similarities would be a great start. I was rather thinking of lexical borrowings but your insight widens my interest !
>  
> Danielle
> Dr. Danielle E. Cyr, Senior Scholar at York University
> 339, boul. Perron ouest
> New Richmond, QC,       G0C 2BO
> dcyr at yorku.ca - 418.392.7271
>  
> ---- Original Message ----
> From: John Steckley <John.Steckley at humber.ca>
> To: "Wolvengrey, Arok" <awolvengrey at firstnationsuniversity.ca>, "Danielle E. Cyr" <dcyr at yorku.ca>, "ALGONQUIANA at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG" <ALGONQUIANA at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>
> Sent: Wed, Nov 19, 2014, 4:29 PM
> Subject: RE: [Algonquiana] Prehistoric Language contact ?
> 
> Danielle/Arok:
>  
> Wendat has a well-developed system of dual pronominal prefixes as agents (but not patients).  Presumably St. Lawrence Iroquoian did as well.  It would be interesting to see whether some phonetic similarities appear between Mi'kmaq/Maliseet dual forms and those that Wendat has.
>  
> John
>  
> From: Algonquiana [mailto:algonquiana-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org] On Behalf Of Wolvengrey, Arok
> Sent: November 19, 2014 4:18 PM
> To: Danielle E. Cyr; ALGONQUIANA at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: [Algonquiana] Prehistoric Language contact ?
>  
> Hi Danielle,
>  
> I'm not aware of anything actually written with regard to this, but there was some brief discussion at the recent Algonquian conference (or was it online???) about the possible source or model for the introduction of the dual as a category in Micmac (and Maliseet?).  Inuktitut could be one source, but Iroquoian was perhaps (?) favoured suggesting some contact in the (lower? south eastern?) Great Lakes area.  Others far more knowledgeable about the Eastern languages, please feel free to shoot these thoughts down as required.
>  
> ᐋᐧᐱ ᑭᐦᐃᐤ
> Arok Wolvengrey
> Professor, Algonquian Languages and Linguistics and
> Department Head of Indigenous Languages, Arts and Cultures
> First Nations University of Canada
> 1 First Nations Way
> Regina, SK   S4S 7K2
>  
> phone:  (306) 790-5950 ext. 3310
> fax:      (306) 790-5995
> e-mail:  awolvengrey at fnuniv.ca
> From: Algonquiana [algonquiana-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org] on behalf of Danielle E. Cyr [dcyr at yorku.ca]
> Sent: November 19, 2014 3:05 PM
> To: ALGONQUIANA at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
> Subject: [Algonquiana] Prehistoric Language contact ?
> 
> Hello All,
>  
> Beside 
> DENNY, Peter J.  2003. Early Signs of Eastern Algonquians. Essays in Algonquian, Catawban and Siouan Linguistics in Memory of Frank T. Siebert Jr. Blair A. Rudes and David J. Costa. Winnipeg: Algonquian and Iroquoian Linguistics, Memoir 16, p. 15-36.
> does anyone know about literature discussing prehistoric language contacts between Proto Eastern Algonquian and other older languages ?
>  
> Thanks in advance,
>  
> Danielle Cyr
> ___________________________________________
> Dr. Danielle E. Cyr, Senior Scholar at York University
> 339, boul. Perron ouest
> New Richmond, QC,   G0C 2BO
> dcyr at yorku.ca - 418.392.7271
>  
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