[Algonquiana] Prehistoric Language contact ?

Thu Nov 20 01:27:27 UTC 2014

Thanks to all who have replied so far. I'm totally amazed by the
sophistication of your suggestions and explanations. The reason of my
question is that I'm presently working on Mi'gmaq place names related to
early PEA migrations into the Gaspe Peninsula and Atlantic Canada. The more
I read in archaeology, the more I wonder about the cultural contacts that
might have taken place when the PEA arrived in these territories.   Except
for Peter Denny, no archaeological writings seem to advocate for such
contacts. All they say is that the Planos arrived ca 9,000 BP and the PEA
ca 3,000-4,000 BP. Nobody (to my candid knowledge) talks about possible
encounters between the two groups. And none talks about the disappearance -
or not- of the Planos. Once again except Peter Denny. On the other hand, my
readings, so far, seem to indicate a complete separation between
archaeology and linguistics. Which is corroborated by David W. Anthony.
1990. Migration in Archaeology: The Baby and the Bathwater. American
Anthropologist; Dec 1990; 92, 4;  
>From this, a new question arising in my mind: did someone ever tried to
compare John Hewson's Dictionary of Proto-Algonquian with a Mi'gmaq
dictionary to try and list the Mi'gmaq words that do not belong to PA; and
then to analyze these words and try to draw a kind of phonetic/phonological
sketch of a possible (dead) loaning language of some kind ?
If Peter Denny's hypothesis is correct, and if Fiedel 1987 is correct that
Mi'gmaq shares only 50 percent of its lexicon with other Central and even
Eastern Algonquian languages, this should be feasible. In comparison, if
French had disappeared from the records, one should be able to deduce its
phonological patterns by analyzing all the words that English doesn't share
with any other European languages, More or less.
Am I too far gone ?
Danielle
Dr. Danielle E. Cyr, Senior Scholar at York University
339, boul. Perron ouest
New Richmond, QC,  G0C 2BO
dcyr at yorku.ca - 418.392.7271
---- Original Message ----
From: David Costa 
To: "Danielle E. Cyr" 
Cc: "John Steckley" , "ALGONQUIANA at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG" 
Sent: Wed, Nov 19, 2014, 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Algonquiana] Prehistoric Language contact ?

What lexical borrowings are you trying to account for?
Dave
John and Arok,
Thanks for your quick reply. Researching phonetic similarities would be a
great start. I was rather thinking of lexical borrowings but your insight
widens my interest !
Danielle

Dr. Danielle E. Cyr, Senior Scholar at York University
339, boul. Perron ouest
New Richmond, QC,  G0C 2BO
dcyr at yorku.ca (mailto:dcyr at yorku.ca) - 418.392.7271
---- Original Message ----
From: John Steckley 
To: "Wolvengrey, Arok" , "Danielle E. Cyr" ,
"ALGONQUIANA at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
(mailto:ALGONQUIANA at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG)" 
Sent: Wed, Nov 19, 2014, 4:29 PM
Subject: RE: [Algonquiana] Prehistoric Language contact ?
	Danielle/Arok:
	Wendat has a well-developed system of dual pronominal prefixes as agents
(but not patients).  Presumably St. Lawrence Iroquoian did as well.  It
would be interesting to see whether some phonetic similarities appear
between Mi'kmaq/Maliseet dual forms and those that Wendat has.
	John
	From: Algonquiana [mailto:algonquiana-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org
(mailto:algonquiana-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org)] On Behalf Of
Wolvengrey, Arok
 Sent: November 19, 2014 4:18 PM
 To: Danielle E. Cyr; ALGONQUIANA at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
(mailto:ALGONQUIANA at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG)
 Subject: Re: [Algonquiana] Prehistoric Language contact ?  
	Hi Danielle,  
	I'm not aware of anything actually written with regard to this, but there
was some brief discussion at the recent Algonquian conference (or was it
online???) about the possible source or model for the introduction of the
dual as a category in Micmac (and Maliseet?).  Inuktitut could be one
source, but Iroquoian was perhaps (?) favoured suggesting some contact in
the (lower? south eastern?) Great Lakes area.  Others far more
knowledgeable about the Eastern languages, please feel free to shoot these
thoughts down as required. 
	ᐋᐧᐱ ᑭᐦᐃᐤ

	Arok Wolvengrey

	Professor, Algonquian Languages and Linguistics and

	Department Head of Indigenous Languages, Arts and Cultures

	First Nations University of Canada

	1 First Nations Way

	Regina, SK   S4S 7K2
	phone:  (306) 790-5950 ext. 3310

	fax:      (306) 790-5995

	e-mail:  awolvengrey at fnuniv.ca (mailto:awolvengrey at fnuniv.ca)   
------------------------------------
	From: Algonquiana [algonquiana-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org
(mailto:algonquiana-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org)] on behalf of
Danielle E. Cyr [dcyr at yorku.ca (mailto:dcyr at yorku.ca)]
 Sent: November 19, 2014 3:05 PM
 To: ALGONQUIANA at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
(mailto:ALGONQUIANA at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG)
 Subject: [Algonquiana] Prehistoric Language contact ?  
	Hello All,  
	Beside  

	 DENNY, Peter J.  2003. Early Signs of Eastern Algonquians. Essays in
Algonquian, Catawban and Siouan Linguistics in Memory of Frank T. Siebert
Jr. Blair A. Rudes and David J. Costa. Winnipeg: Algonquian and Iroquoian
Linguistics, Memoir 16, p. 15-36.

	does anyone know about literature discussing prehistoric language contacts
between Proto Eastern Algonquian and other older languages ?  
	Thanks in advance,  
	Danielle Cyr  
	___________________________________________ 
	Dr. Danielle E. Cyr, Senior Scholar at York University  
	339, boul. Perron ouest  
	New Richmond, QC,   G0C 2BO  
	dcyr at yorku.ca (mailto:dcyr at yorku.ca) - 418.392.7271 

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