Paz B. Naylor pnaylor at umich.edu
Fri Jul 13 04:32:30 UTC 2001

P.S.  (Please see the "original message" [edited]  below)

I'm afraid I was in a rush earlier today so I missed some of the points you
made about NILA & KILA vs. NINA and KINA.
1. NILA is used in "modern Manila dialect".  It has always been used (along
with KILA) in old Manila dialect (i.e., pre-WWII and earlier).
2. "The sub-standard form 'kila' must have been invented by analogy - but I
have no idea who uses it as I have never heard it"
a) Substandard?!  What is standard?  Is there no variation at all within
"standard"?  Is Bulacan Tagalog "standard"?  Why? It is the register used in
literary text but try speaking Bulacan Tagalog and you will immediately be
marked as a non-native speaker.
b) NILA and KILA have always been in use side by side in my old Manila
dialect and everyone else I knew - my contemporaries, my parents and
grandparents and their contemporaries.  What I said above of KILA applies to
NILA as well.  This has not changed amongst speakers of old Manila dialect -
a fact that was confirmed on my last visit to Manila in 1995 as well as by
excerpts from Liwayway, TV programs, videotapes and audiotapes I made then.

Take it from someone who has been there - in more ways than one.

As An-Langers, we have tacitly agreed to disagree, right?  So, no love lost.
All the best, Manang Paz

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat - Hotmail" <pbnaylor at hotmail.com>
To: <carlrubino at home.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 1:28 PM
Subject: Fw: Filipino-1 + portmanteau question

> Dear Carl:
> This is stale material at this point but as I was pruning my email files,
> re-read your message.  You say that KILA is new Manila dialect - it ain't!
> I grew up with it - we are old Manila, i.e., since Spanish times - and I
> a pretty old lady now.  You also say you don't know who use KILA. The
> answer:  mainly old Manila dialect speakers - and I don't mean overaged
> people from Manila - (who may  be residing in the (wealthy) suburbs like
> San Juan, New Manila, Quezon City, Forbes Park, Makati, Paranaque,
> etc., etc.  but whose family origins are old Manila).
> I told one of our An-Lang colleagues pretty much the same thing and you
know what he said?
> Something like "well you wouldn't want to speak Tagalog like  cockney"
(!?).  To which, I replied that you cannot possibly equate cockney with old
Manila Tagalog - the dialect of the elite!  It is more comparable to English
RP, the Southern (and London) variety of Standard English.

> The nouveau Manilans - mostly from non-Tagalog-speaking provinces - who
have come
> in hordes after WWII have brought to bear influences from their languages
> Manila Tagalog resulting in the development of a multitude of dialects and
> So much is going on and the most pressing need is the recognition and
scientific study
> of the multiple dialects of Tagalog/Filipino (geographic and social) and
registers (formal, informal, literary, academic, etc.) and speech styles
(Taglish, bilingual code switching, etc.).
> All for now, all the best.  Manang Paz
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paz B. Naylor" <pnaylor at umich.edu>
> To: "pbnaylor" <pbnaylor at hotmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 10:58 AM
> Subject: Fw: Filipino-1 + portmanteau question
> >

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