query: associative plurals via noun-verb disagreement

Thu Nov 13 20:13:22 UTC 2008

Dear Paz,

Maraming salamat, thanks for your quick reply and the Tagalog examples.  
I think, however, that Tagalog differs crucially from Roon in that -- 
please correct me if I'm wrong -- you can't say

*Nagsisitawa si Juan

(which would be the equivalent of Roon sentence (3)) to mean

Tumatawa sina Juan
'Juan and his friends are laughing'.

Warmest regards,

David

>
> Hello David and Fellow Austronesianists!
>
> For all it's worth, here is something in Tagalog (and Cebuano and 
> Hiligaynon) that appears to parallel your examples:
>
> (1) Amos-i i-berif
>    Amos-PERS 3SG:ANIM-laugh
>    'Amos is laughing'
>
> TAG:    Tumatawa si                   Juan / Si Juan, Tumatawa.
>                              SING NOM
>                         'Juan is laughing.'
>
> (2) Amos-i su-berif
>     Amos-PERS 3DU:ANIM-laugh
>     'Amos and his friend are laughing'
>
> TAG:    Tumatawa si Juan  AT ang kaibigan niya / Si Juan AT and 
> kaibigan niya, tumatawa.
>               (no 'dual' marker) and
>                   'Juan and his friend are laughing.'
>
> (3) Amos-i si-berif
>       Amos-PERS 3PL:ANIM-laugh
>       'Amos and his friends are laughing'
>
> TAG: Tumatawa sina                     Juan / Sina Juan, tumatawa.
>                          PLURAL NOM
>         'Juan and his friends are laughing'.
>
> However, although the 'number-neutral' form TUMATAWA 'laughing' is 
> most often used, Tagalog does have an optional PLURAL form: 
> NAGSISITAWA or NANGAGSISITAWA 'are laughing'.
>
> Warmest regards, Paz
>
>
>
> Paz Buenaventura Naylor, Ph.D.
> (emeritus) Associate Professor, Asian Languages and Cultures
>                Program Associate, Linguistics
>                Faculty Associate, Center for SSEAsian Studies
>
> (formerly) Assistant Professor, Linguistics
>                Lecturer, Teaching Fellow, Romance Languages
> The University of Michigan, Ann Arbor MI 48109
> Home Address: 2032 Winsted Blvd., Ann Arbor MI 48103
> Tel/Fax:   734-995-2371
>
>  
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Gil" <gil at eva.mpg.de>
> To: <an-lang at anu.edu.au>
> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 1:22 PM
> Subject: [An-lang] query: associative plurals via noun-verb disagreement
>
>
>> Dear fellow Austronesianists,
>>
>> I am interested in the cross-linguistic distribution of a construction
>> type in which an associative plural meaning, eg. 'John and his
>> associates', results from a singular noun triggering plural number
>> agreement on the verb, as illustrated in the following examples from
>> Roon (a SHWNG language spoken in the Cenderawasih bay of New Guinea):
>>
>
> 1) Amos-i i-berif
>    Amos-PERS 3SG:ANIM-laugh
>    'Amos is laughing'
>
> (2) Amos-i su-berif
>     Amos-PERS 3DU:ANIM-laugh
>     'Amos and his friend are laughing'
>
> (3) Amos-i si-berif
>    Amos-PERS 3PL:ANIM-laugh
>    'Amos and his friends are laughing'
>
>
>> Example (1) shows ordinary agreement, with a singular subject triggering
>> singular verb agreement.  However, examples (2) and (3) illustrate how
>> an associative plural interpretation is derived via disagreement, with
>> the still-singular subject occurring in construction with dual- and
>> plural-subject marked verbs respectively.  We might therefore call the
>> construction in (2) and (3) an Associative Plural via Disagreement, or
>> ASPD.
>>
>> My question is: how common is this ASPD construction in the languages of
>> the world?  I would be very grateful for examples of other languages,
>> Austronesian or otherwise, that have ASPDs.  I would also appreciate any
>> pointers to discussion of this construction in the literature.  At
>> present I am familiar with just two:  Grev Corbett's 2000 book on
>> Number, where he cites similar examples from Haruai (Papuan), Maltese,
>> and the Talitsk dialect of Russian, and Daniel and Moravcsik's chapter
>> on associative plurals in the World Atlas of Language Structures, where
>> they cite Plains Cree as having a similar construction.
>>
>> A major challenge in typology is to collect negative data, ie. reliable
>> reports that a certain language lacks a particular construction (as
>> opposed to it simply not being mentioned in a couple of grammar books).
>> Thus, I would also greatly appreciate definitive reports that
>> such-and-such a language does *not* have ASPDs.  (Whereas for languages
>> with no verbal number agreement, the absence of ASPDs is a logical
>> necessity, for languages with verbal number agreement, the absence of
>> ASPDs becomes a substantive and interesting fact about the language.)
>> For starters, English, even though it has verbal number agreement, lacks
>> an ASPD: you can't say *'John are laughing' to mean 'John and his
>> friends are laughing', as in (3) above. The same is true also for
>> Tagalog, with its optional plural number marking on the verb in the
>> actor-topic voice.  So if the language(s) you are familiar with have
>> verbal number agreement but lack an ASPD, please let me know too!
>>
>> Thanks and best wishes,
>>
>> David
>>
>> -- 
>> David Gil
>>
>> Department of Linguistics
>> Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
>> Deutscher Platz 6, D-04103 Leipzig, Germany
>>
>> Telephone: 49-341-3550321 Fax: 49-341-3550119
>> Email: gil at eva.mpg.de
>> Webpage:  http://www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> An-lang at anu.edu.au
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>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

-- 
David Gil

Department of Linguistics
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6, D-04103 Leipzig, Germany

Telephone: 49-341-3550321 Fax: 49-341-3550119
Email: gil at eva.mpg.de
Webpage:  http://www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/

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