query: associative plurals via noun-verb disagreement
Paz B. Naylor
pnaylor at UMICH.EDU
Thu Nov 13 22:50:45 UTC 2008
David,
I am afraid I did not state things clearly. I should have put it this way:
"However, although the 'number-neutral' form TUMATAWA 'laughing' is
most often used WITH PLURAL NOUNS, Tagalog does have an optional
PLURAL form:
NAGSISITAWA or NANGAGSISITAWA 'are laughing'." that is used WITH
PLURAL NOUNS.
In other words: TUMATAWA is USUALLY USED with BOTH SINGULAR AND PLURAL
NOUNS;
Although TUMATAWA is most often used with PLURAL
NOUNS, the OPTIONAL PLURAL FORM
NAGSISITAWA/NANGAGSISITAWA IS OPTIONALLY USED WITH
PLURAL NOUNS.
Indeed we cannot say *Nagsisitawa si Juan.
Nagsisitawa/nangagsisitawa is only usable with SINA Juan.
Paz
From: "David Gil" <gil at eva.mpg.de>
To: "Paz B. Naylor" <pnaylor at umich.edu>
Cc: <an-lang at anu.edu.au>
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: [An-lang] query: associative plurals via noun-verb disagreement
> Dear Paz,
>
> Maraming salamat, thanks for your quick reply and the Tagalog examples. I
> think, however, that Tagalog differs crucially from Roon in that --
> please correct me if I'm wrong -- you can't say
>
> *Nagsisitawa si Juan
>
> (which would be the equivalent of Roon sentence (3)) to mean
>
> Tumatawa sina Juan
> 'Juan and his friends are laughing'.
>
> Warmest regards,
>
> David
>
>
>>
>> Hello David and Fellow Austronesianists!
>>
>> For all it's worth, here is something in Tagalog (and Cebuano and
>> Hiligaynon) that appears to parallel your examples:
>>
>> (1) Amos-i i-berif
>> Amos-PERS 3SG:ANIM-laugh
>> 'Amos is laughing'
>>
>> TAG: Tumatawa si Juan / Si Juan, Tumatawa.
>> SING NOM
>> 'Juan is laughing.'
>>
>> (2) Amos-i su-berif
>> Amos-PERS 3DU:ANIM-laugh
>> 'Amos and his friend are laughing'
>>
>> TAG: Tumatawa si Juan AT ang kaibigan niya / Si Juan AT and kaibigan
>> niya, tumatawa.
>> (no 'dual' marker) and
>> 'Juan and his friend are laughing.'
>>
>> (3) Amos-i si-berif
>> Amos-PERS 3PL:ANIM-laugh
>> 'Amos and his friends are laughing'
>>
>> TAG: Tumatawa sina Juan / Sina Juan, tumatawa.
>> PLURAL NOM
>> 'Juan and his friends are laughing'.
>>
>> However, although the 'number-neutral' form TUMATAWA 'laughing' is most
>> often used, Tagalog does have an optional PLURAL form: NAGSISITAWA or
>> NANGAGSISITAWA 'are laughing'.
>>
>> Warmest regards, Paz
>>
>>
>>
>> Paz Buenaventura Naylor, Ph.D.
>> (emeritus) Associate Professor, Asian Languages and Cultures
>> Program Associate, Linguistics
>> Faculty Associate, Center for SSEAsian Studies
>>
>> (formerly) Assistant Professor, Linguistics
>> Lecturer, Teaching Fellow, Romance Languages
>> The University of Michigan, Ann Arbor MI 48109
>> Home Address: 2032 Winsted Blvd., Ann Arbor MI 48103
>> Tel/Fax: 734-995-2371
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Gil" <gil at eva.mpg.de>
>> To: <an-lang at anu.edu.au>
>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 1:22 PM
>> Subject: [An-lang] query: associative plurals via noun-verb disagreement
>>
>>
>>> Dear fellow Austronesianists,
>>>
>>> I am interested in the cross-linguistic distribution of a construction
>>> type in which an associative plural meaning, eg. 'John and his
>>> associates', results from a singular noun triggering plural number
>>> agreement on the verb, as illustrated in the following examples from
>>> Roon (a SHWNG language spoken in the Cenderawasih bay of New Guinea):
>>>
>>
>> 1) Amos-i i-berif
>> Amos-PERS 3SG:ANIM-laugh
>> 'Amos is laughing'
>>
>> (2) Amos-i su-berif
>> Amos-PERS 3DU:ANIM-laugh
>> 'Amos and his friend are laughing'
>>
>> (3) Amos-i si-berif
>> Amos-PERS 3PL:ANIM-laugh
>> 'Amos and his friends are laughing'
>>
>>
>>> Example (1) shows ordinary agreement, with a singular subject triggering
>>> singular verb agreement. However, examples (2) and (3) illustrate how
>>> an associative plural interpretation is derived via disagreement, with
>>> the still-singular subject occurring in construction with dual- and
>>> plural-subject marked verbs respectively. We might therefore call the
>>> construction in (2) and (3) an Associative Plural via Disagreement, or
>>> ASPD.
>>>
>>> My question is: how common is this ASPD construction in the languages of
>>> the world? I would be very grateful for examples of other languages,
>>> Austronesian or otherwise, that have ASPDs. I would also appreciate any
>>> pointers to discussion of this construction in the literature. At
>>> present I am familiar with just two: Grev Corbett's 2000 book on
>>> Number, where he cites similar examples from Haruai (Papuan), Maltese,
>>> and the Talitsk dialect of Russian, and Daniel and Moravcsik's chapter
>>> on associative plurals in the World Atlas of Language Structures, where
>>> they cite Plains Cree as having a similar construction.
>>>
>>> A major challenge in typology is to collect negative data, ie. reliable
>>> reports that a certain language lacks a particular construction (as
>>> opposed to it simply not being mentioned in a couple of grammar books).
>>> Thus, I would also greatly appreciate definitive reports that
>>> such-and-such a language does *not* have ASPDs. (Whereas for languages
>>> with no verbal number agreement, the absence of ASPDs is a logical
>>> necessity, for languages with verbal number agreement, the absence of
>>> ASPDs becomes a substantive and interesting fact about the language.)
>>> For starters, English, even though it has verbal number agreement, lacks
>>> an ASPD: you can't say *'John are laughing' to mean 'John and his
>>> friends are laughing', as in (3) above. The same is true also for
>>> Tagalog, with its optional plural number marking on the verb in the
>>> actor-topic voice. So if the language(s) you are familiar with have
>>> verbal number agreement but lack an ASPD, please let me know too!
>>>
>>> Thanks and best wishes,
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> --
>>> David Gil
>>>
>>> Department of Linguistics
>>> Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
>>> Deutscher Platz 6, D-04103 Leipzig, Germany
>>>
>>> Telephone: 49-341-3550321 Fax: 49-341-3550119
>>> Email: gil at eva.mpg.de
>>> Webpage: http://www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> An-lang mailing list
>>> An-lang at anu.edu.au
>>> http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> David Gil
>
> Department of Linguistics
> Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
> Deutscher Platz 6, D-04103 Leipzig, Germany
>
> Telephone: 49-341-3550321 Fax: 49-341-3550119
> Email: gil at eva.mpg.de
> Webpage: http://www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/
>
>
>
>
>
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