Fwd: [PapuanLanguages] Etymology of WANT

Thu May 28 20:44:11 UTC 2009

Posted on behalf of Olesya, who is not subscribed to the list. mm

> From: Olesya Khanina <khanina at eva.mpg.de>
> Date: 28 May 2009 14:13:15 BST
> To: papuanlanguages at anu.edu.au, wp.lawrence at auckland.ac.nz, an-lang at anu.edu.au
> Subject: Re: Fwd: [An-lang] [PapuanLanguages] Etymology of WANT
>
>
> Hi there,
>
> I was forwarded your messages from Miriam Meyerhoff.
> Yes, it was me who contacted Andy some time ago, and I was indeed  
> interested in the history of 'want'-expressions in Central Pacific.  
> From historical point of view, I also had a look at Turkic, so for  
> these two families I have a list of possible etymologies for 'want'- 
> expressions.
> Otherwise my research has been synchronic, i.e. I've looked at  
> various properties of 'want' in several dozens of languages,  
> including other meanings the 'want'-staff could have. These results  
> were summarized in my 2008 paper in Studies in language 32:4,  
> entitled 'How universal is wanting?'
> The results for Central Pacific and Turkic are still awaiting the  
> publication, but I can share the manuscripts with Wayne  
> (unfortunately, this is too much data and too much discussion to  
> post this to the list).
>
> Best regards,
> Olesya
>
> -- 
> ****************************************************************
> Olesya Khanina (PhD)
> Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
> Department of Linguistics
> Deutscher Platz 6       phone:    +49 (0) 341 35 50 339
> D-04103 Leipzig         fax:      +49 (0) 341 35 50 333
> Germany                 e-mail:    khanina at eva.mpg.de
> http://email.eva.mpg.de/~khanina/
> ****************************************************************
>>
>>> *From: *<f.lichtenberk at auckland.ac.nz <mailto:f.lichtenberk at auckland.ac.nz 
>>> >>
>>> *Date: *28 May 2009 03:06:49 BST
>>> *To: *<papuanlanguages at anu.edu.au  
>>> <mailto:papuanlanguages at anu.edu.au>>
>>> *Cc: *wp.lawrence at auckland.ac.nz  
>>> <mailto:wp.lawrence at auckland.ac.nz>, an-lang at anu.edu.au <mailto:an-lang at anu.edu.au 
>>> >
>>> *Subject: **Re: [An-lang] [PapuanLanguages] Etymology of WANT*
>>>
>>> Hi Hilario and Wayne,
>>>
>>> I think the person in Germany Andy Pawley has in mind is Olesya  
>>> Khanina, who was working on a cross-linguistic study of 'want' a  
>>> few years ago. She was at the Max Planck Institute in Leipzig at  
>>> the time, and her address was khanina at eva.mpg.de <mailto:khanina at eva.mpg.de 
>>> >.
>>>
>>> Frank Lichtenberk
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: papuanlanguages-bounces at anu.edu.au [mailto:papuanlanguages-bounces at anu.edu.au 
>>> ] On Behalf Of Andrew Pawley
>>> Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2009 1:37 p.m.
>>> To: Papuan languages discussion list
>>> Cc: an-lang at anu.edu.au <mailto:an-lang at anu.edu.au>; Wayne Lawrence  
>>> (ARTS ASI); papuanlanguages at anu.edu.au <mailto:papuanlanguages at anu.edu.au 
>>> >
>>> Subject: Re: [PapuanLanguages] Etymology of WANT
>>>
>>> Dear Hilario and Wayne
>>>
>>> There are probably many other comparative sources but I suggest  
>>> you start with a look at Cliff Goddard and Anna Wierzbicka (eds),  
>>> 1994.  Semantic and Lexical Universals,  387-421.   Benjamins:  
>>> Amsterdam.  This has essays on various languages that describe how  
>>> 'want' and the editors' 50 or so other putative universals are  
>>> expressed.
>>> In the Papuan (Trans New Guinea family) language I know best,  
>>> Kalam, 'X wants something' is expressed literally as 'X says "I  
>>> get something!" ', or X says 'we get something!", using the  
>>> hortative of the verb d- 'get, have, control, etc.' (where an  
>>> alternative literal translation for 'I get something' might also  
>>> be  'let me get something'. That is, in Kalam someone's thought  
>>> processes are expressed as internal quoted speech, and wanting is  
>>> viewed as a thought process. My paper in that volume is "Kalam  
>>> exponents of lexico-semantic primitives." I think this mode of  
>>> expressing want is widespread among Papuan languages of New Guinea.
>>>
>>>
>>> A few years ago a PhD student in Germany wrote to me saying she  
>>> was looking at the origins of 'want' expressions in Fijian and  
>>> Polynesian languages, maybe just at the history of the peverbal  
>>> desiderative particle Fijian via, PPn *fia.  Unfortunately I  
>>> forget her affiliation, maybe it was at one of the MPIs.  I have  
>>> the impression that in Oceanic languages, as in Tok Pisin,  
>>> desiderative 'want' is likely to be expressed by, or come from a  
>>> verb of liking.  Not surprising, but kind of boring for a  
>>> typologist looking for extreme sourrces.
>>>
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Hilario De Sousa <hilario.desousa at usyd.edu.au <mailto:hilario.desousa at usyd.edu.au 
>>> >>
>>> Date: Thursday, May 28, 2009 7:00 am
>>> Subject: [PapuanLanguages] Etymology of WANT
>>> To: papuanlanguages at anu.edu.au  
>>> <mailto:papuanlanguages at anu.edu.au>, an-lang at anu.edu.au <mailto:an-lang at anu.edu.au 
>>> >
>>> Cc: wp.lawrence at auckland.ac.nz <mailto:wp.lawrence at auckland.ac.nz>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> *sorry for cross-posting*
>>>> Dear Austronesianists/Papuanists,
>>>>
>>>> Wayne Lawrence (wp.lawrence at auckland.ac.nz <mailto:wp.lawrence at auckland.ac.nz 
>>>> >) is looking into the
>>>> grammaticalisatin of 'desideratives' (both lexical and  
>>>> grammatical). For instance, English «want» is grammaticalised  
>>>> from an original
>>>> meaning of 'lack'.  An interesting case is the Japanese verbal  
>>>> suffix
>>>> «-tai», which is said to come from «itai» 'sore, hurts', via
>>>> 'extremely'
>>>> (the earliest instances of -itai, in the late Heian period, have  
>>>> the
>>>> interpretation of 'very'.  The path SORE --> EXTREMELY is also  
>>>> found
>>>> in German «sehr» 'very', c.f. English «sore»).  Do you know of any
>>>> other examples of EXTREMELY --
>>>>>
>>>> WANT?  The etymology of WANT in other languages would also be  
>>>> hugely
>>>> appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> Hilário de Sousa on behalf of Wayne Lawrence
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/papuanlanguages
>>>
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>>
>
>
>
>

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