Arabic-L:LING:Numbers with nouns

[Dilworth B. Parkinson]

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Arabic-L: Wed 13 Feb 2002
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-------------------------Directory-------------------------------------

1) Subject: Numbers with nouns (more refs)
2) Subject: Numbers with nouns
3) Subject: Numbers with nouns

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1)
Date:  13 Feb 2002
From: Ignacio Ferrando Frutos <ignacio.ferrando at uca.es>
Subject: Numbers with nouns (more refs)

Dear members,
concerning the issue of "numbers with nouns", I would suggest, in
addition to the works indicated by M. Woidich, a reading of L.
Drozdík (2001), Modern Written Arabic, where you will find a chapter
entitled "The 3-10 cardinal nimbers in Arabic" (pp. 69-86), including
very interesting remarks on the distribution of short vs. long forms,
in both Written and Native Arabic.
Best wishes to all,
ignacio ferrando

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2)
Date:  13 Feb 2002
From: "L.Boumans" <l.boumans at let.kun.nl>
Subject: Numbers with nouns

Dear all,

Joining in the discussion on long form vs short form numerals, I
would suggest the following hypotheses on the basis of Waheed Samy's
examples:

1) the long form + SG is used in modifying compounds, like in the examples

'arbaca baab = 4 door
xamsa Hsaan = 5 horsepower
sabca raakib = 7 seater, (7 passengers allowed, typically to show
max. allowable capacity for taxis).

which design types of cars, or the four-blade fan. Cf. Eng.
four-wheel drive etc.

This raises the question of how these compounds are used, are they
dependents of possessive phrases, i.e. nouns ( carabiyyat 'arbaca
baab ), or adjectives ( carabiyya 'arbaca baab ) ?



2) the "four fish" type: in the case of dishes in restauraunt /samak
ma'li/ does not refer to a single fried fish, but is the 'title' of a
dish named after its principal ingredient. After all, a single /samak
ma'li/ may include more than one small fish, as well as some lettuce
leaves or even a slice of cucumber. The SG form results from
reluctance to pluralise the title /samak ma'li/.

I am not a specilist in either counting or Egyptian Arabic, so this
is just a wild guess.

Louis Boumans

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3)
Date:  13 Feb 2002
From: "Schub, Michael" <michael.schub at trincoll.edu>
Subject: Numbers with nouns

In partial answer to your question:  some colloquial dictionaries
give the plurals  /tiyyaam/, /tushhur/, /taalaaf/ [??]--for
days, months, thousands, etc.  These are formed by "metanalysis"
[="wrong cuttting"]  of the long form of the numerals with
plurals beginning with hamzah. leaving us with, e.g.
/t(a)lat  tushur/  = "3 months" with the appearance of having the
"normal" short form with the counted noun.

      Best wishes,
                                          Mike Schub

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End of Arabic-L:  13 Feb 2002