Qhata say munk alta (fwd)

Wed Feb 24 06:00:23 UTC 1999

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 12:49:42 -0800
From: Jim Holton <jim at adisoft-inc.com>
Subject: Re: Qhata say munk alta

Hi Daves,  Everbody,

I am going to assume you (Dave Robertson) forgot the question mark in the
subject line and you're asking for our thoughts, not telling us that now we've
caused a problem (then again, maybe it's poetic) :-) :-) really :-)

Regarding some of the questions that we're posing around:

1. New Lists, additional list, etc.  Although some of the points people have
made for having multiple lists are worth considering, I real feel that in the
long run multiple lists on Chinook Jargon serve no real purpose and would in
fact hinder meaningful discussion by dispersing information that's important
in understanding Jargon.  I agree with Dave Lewis that you can't really
separate a linguist discussion from a cultural one.  I think the definition of
"language" actually mentions the word "culture."  And these days, separating
politics, history from culture seems hard, so occasionally meaningful dialogue
on a language is going to sometimes be framed in other disciplines.  I think
people recogninze that.  I think the current "rules" that this list adheres-to
allow for that type of discussion.  I really haven't felt "fractionalized" or
feel that I'm not getting the whole story because going into another
discipline is tabu.  If the sole purpose of a new list is to some how generate
a freer discussion, I'd really think again.  Any of the factors that affect
this list will also exist for any new group that is established if that group
is going to be taken seriously.

2. Fully moderated mode. I personally don't favor a fully moderated mode for
the list because of the psychological affect that that mode would have on some
people.  I think that just about everybody can handle their own postings and
don't really think it is necessary.  On the otherhand, having a fully
moderated mode wouldn't really bother me that much.  I don't think that
anything materially will really be censored.  Moderated mode might change the
character of the list. It could end up creating more info on the list.  Based
on Dave Robertson's schedule (he claims he actually works :-) ),  messages
might end up being more verbose and composed with more and more  references as
I'd assume Dave would be batching the process when he got home. This batching
could sort of create a miniture "publish date" allowing people to compose
responses over a period of time and probably slow the velocity of responses
down a bit. I would like to add that I do think the messages on the whole have
been first rate.  I am particularly interested in what Dave Lewis is finding,
John Burpee's Hudson Bay archive experience and just about everything else.

3. Democracy, moderator, colonialism, etc.  I think it is a big big mistake to
confuse having a moderator with being undemocratic.  Every group has rules
that it runs by and most of them include someone that acts as a moderator,
executive, manager, etc.  I know when the Chinook Jargon discussion was
changed from informal CCs to a list server, the group gladfully accepted Dave
Robertson's offer to act as moderator.  Dave went out and got us a server.
Since then he's moved us to a better server, handled the day to day issues for
us and pretty much kept everything running seamlessly.  I think he's done a
great job. I think the discussion has benefitted. I also think he's done it
with "no censoring" and even very little chidding.  Unfortunately, moderators
sometimes make tough and unpopular calls,   I think equating having a
moderator with "colonialism" misses the point and eventually leads to serious
reprecussions in any group like ours.  What would be democratic, and I hate to
bring this up because I would campaign and vote against it, is that if we
think the moderator is wrong and doing a bad job, that we change moderators.
I don't think anybody's suggested that.

4. The trigger.  The best thing that I read was from Aron when he said,
":There must be a way for both Dave and Mike to calm things down a bit and get
on with the good work."  Personally, things are moving way too fast for me.
One night I receive a message about somebody getting the boot, and the next
morning there is a "roll call" being taken and I'm suppose to decide which
"side" I am on.  Yesterday after a 14 hour day and a few hundred miles of
driving, some alternatives are posed and this morning I am asked how I like
the list now and I am also being "invited" to join a new list.  Maybe I was
misreading the posting as I thought real questions were being asked - I guess
they were rhetorical.  I think if there is a possible problem that involves
Mike Cleven that Dave Robertson, as moderator, and Mike need to have a
meaningful dialogue and they both owe it to every member in the group to
resolve the issue in a way that it does not damage the group.   This doesn't
necessarily mean that everybody needs every detail.  This group's discussion
is public and it reflects on every active member, so sometimes issues need to
be taken off line. What Dave Lewis says is true, there are  several careers,
potential careers involved with the Jargon. I take the perpetuation of Chinook
Jargon seriously and I think many of the people on the list do too. My
"support" for Mike was that he establish a dialogue with Dave.  I don't feel
this issue has really been resolved, so I suggest that both people review
their discussion with each other.  As you can see, I am not a fan of trial by
soap box.

Anyhow, that's my two cents.  Feel free to give me change.

LaXayEm, Jim

David Robertson wrote:

> LhaXayEm.
>
> Chxi alta na munk Xluyma ukuk lu7lu, pus qhanchi tl'unEs-lhaksta mash c'Em
> phipa khapa CHINOOK, ukuk c'Em phipa lhatEwa khapa nay.  Alta pus na
> tEmtEm lhush pus c'Em phipa lhatEwa ilEp lhaX khapa khanawi lhaksta, ya
> lhatEwa.  Pus wek na tIki khakwa, wek ya lhatEwa.  Nixwa ma wawa khakwa ma
> tIki.
>
> Uk Mike wEXt ya mIlhayt khapa lu7lu.
>
> SIk tEmtEm nay pus khanawi ukuk.  Na munk lhush Ikta, qhanchi hayu na
> kEmtEks khakwa.
>
> Alta lhush pus na lhatEwa pus musEm.
>
> Dave
>
>  *VISIT the archives of the CHINOOK jargon and the SALISHAN & neighboring*
>                     <=== languages lists, on the Web! ===>
>            http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/salishan.html
>            http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/chinook.html

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