The Number Eight..../'Circumscribed' numerals (fwd)

[David Robertson]

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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 14:11:53 -0500
From: Dell Hymes <dhh4d at virginia.edu>
To: David Robertson <drobert at tincan.tincan.org>
Subject: Re: The Number Eight..../'Circumscribed' numerals

The form for 'seven' in Chinook proper, which I have taken to calling
'Shoalwater Chinook' to distinguish it from 'Chinook' in the sense of the
Jargon, is sinamakSt  (see Boas, Chinook, 1911 (Handbook of American Indian
Languages Part I, p. 637 (Washington, D. C. :Government Printing Office))
	The second part is the word for 'two' throughout Chinookan (it's
the same in Wasco and Wishram at the eastern end).  What about sin-(a)-?  I
have long thought that it is a form for 'point' or 'end' or 'extremity'.
One has to guess.  But there are forms of the same shape elsewhere in
Chinookan and related languages which have such meanings.  (Sorry I don't
remember them off hand--if I remember right, there's a Penutian coagnate in
the sense of 'nose').
	That would make sense.  sin- for 'five' in the sense of a whole
hand of fingers, two to follow = seven.
	This is an inference, but clearly sin- is something (since makSt is
something, namely 'two').
	As for 'eight', I don't think I ever did figure out what it was,
except that it has the look of a verb word, if it is Chinookan in origin.
kwitst 'nine' has the meaning 'less than', as I recall (i.e., less then
'ten').
	Sorry to rely on my memory, being pressed at the moment.

			All best,
				Dell

>LaXayEm,
>
>But it's noteworthy that e.g. Chinook Jargon '7' is also a 'circumscribed'
>numeral in origin -- as far as I can tell.  Perhaps Dell Hymes or another
>person can say for sure.
>
>Supposedly most of the numerals in Lakota, Dakota etc. are
>'circumscribed', meaning they have meaning rather than just indicating a
>number.  The meanings refer to fingers being folded over; to a whole fist;
>and so on.  I believe Salishan languages have several numerals like this
>too, and that such words refer to a system of counting on the hands.
>
>Finally, there are languages which have lost very nearly all of their
>native numerals to a powerful foreign language's influence.  I can't
>think of examples just now, though!  And Michif has only one Cree numeral,
>"one", but that's a whole 'nother case entirely, and the language also
>has for example the French articles <un, une>.
>
>Lush san!
>Dave
>
> *VISIT the archives of the CHINOOK jargon and the SALISHAN & neighboring*
>		    <=== languages lists, on the Web! ===>
>	   http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/salishan.html
>	   http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/chinook.html