Swan re ChInuk Wawa and children before 1857 (fwd)

[David Robertson]

 *VISIT the archives of the CHINOOK jargon and the SALISHAN & neighboring*
		    <=== languages lists, on the Web! ===>
	   http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/salishan.html
	   http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/chinook.html

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 14:56:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Henry Zenk <psu18009 at pdx.edu>
To: David Robertson <drobert at TINCAN.TINCAN.ORG>
Cc: CHINOOK at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Swan re ChInuk Wawa and children before 1857

Hi Dave,

I guess I missed this one earlier (I check my email sporadically, and
sometimes very superficially).  I can tell you that this anecdote does not
appear in my dissertation.  However, I do not think it surprising to find
reference to children speaking Jargon in this area in the 1850s:  Astoria
after all had been in existence since 1811, and there had been a good deal
of interaction between Indians and newcomers over the years--intensifying
as the numbers of resident Whites and metises increased.  Jargon had also
certainly been in use among Indians for some time as a lingua franca in
this area (perhaps Tony would have something to say about
this).  There were also many mixed families (fur company employees
married to Indian women), in which Jargon must have been a household
language which would have been acquired by children.  We're right in the
"cradle" of Jargon here, after all.

To my (Grand Ronde attuned) sensibility, by the way, "nesayka mamuk-hihi
liplet" would most naturally translate:  'we're making fun of the
priest'!  Can you locate the quote?  Henry

On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, David Robertson wrote:

> LhaXayEm,
>
> You'll be exasperated:  Walking around in the rain today, a thought about
> James Swan's account of life among the NW coastal Indians came into my
> head.  I haven't found the reference in my files for you...but doesn't he
> tell of encountering a group of Chinook kids who were pretending to
> baptize one another?  As I recall, he asked them what they were doing, and
> was answered, "Nesika mamook heehee leplate!"  ("We're playing priest!")
>
> So if people that young were speaking Chinook Jargon in the 1850's in the
> Columbia estuary region, does that have any bearing on our understanding
> of the history of native-language acquisition of the Wawa?
>
> A brief look at Hajda, Zenk and Boyd ("The Early Historiography of Chinook
> Jargon") shows me no reference to this issue.  I'm still waiting for UMI
> to send me my copy of Henry Zenk's dissertation, so I don't really know if
> this little anecdote is considered there.  I'll be curious to hear more
> about this.
>
> Hayash mersi,
> Dave
>
>
>
>  *VISIT the archives of the CHINOOK jargon and the SALISHAN & neighboring*
> 		    <=== languages lists, on the Web! ===>
> 	   http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/salishan.html
> 	   http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/chinook.html
>