FN Language

[Bruce, Colin]

I'd like to know how much closer.  Is it like the difference between the
Canadian and Australian Englishes.  I've been studying learning Gitxsan and
Nisgaa for a few years now and haven't found much more than a few
differences in word choice and accent.  I concluded that people chose to
call them different languages for political reasons much like Urdu and
Hindi.  Maybe someone would knows why we would talk about these very closely
related ways of speaking as "languages" and not "dialects."

PS I've also seen that while Gitxsan and Nisgaa have opted for very similar
spelling systems while Tsimshian another very closely related
language/dialect has not.  This makes it a bit confusing (something wawa
buffs would understand).

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Tony Johnson [mailto:Tony.Johnson at GRANDRONDE.ORG]
Sent:	Friday, December 19, 2003 9:56 AM
To:	CHINOOK at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
Subject:	Re: FN Language

A couple of comments.  I, also, wondered if that was not Dave's intention
when he wrote "relevant."  However, it is clear that "upriver" Chinookan did
contribute to the core vocabulary of Chinuk Wawa.  This fact does not
conflict with the statement that varieties once spoken at the mouth were the
primary contributors to the language considering that the Kathlamet dialect
is generally considered "Upper" Chinookan, and its boundaries are just a few
miles inland from the mouth of the river.  Whether or not you classify it as
Upper Chinookan or its own language it does share similarities with Upper
Chinook which makes it apparent that some core Chinuk Wawa vocabulary is
from Kathlamet or some other Upper Chinook variety.

Also, I can't speak to Frisian, but it is my understanding that the
Chinookan languages are considerably closer related than Dutch and modern
English.

ALqi wEXt--Tony
Shawash-Ili7i
(Grand Ronde, OR)

>>> "Ros' Haruo" <lilandbr at hotmail.com> 12/17/2003 7:32:12 PM >>>
Looks to me like the question is what Dave meant by "relevant" when he wrote

"I believe there are no speakers of the relevant Chinookan languages left" *

I assume he meant the Chinookan varieties once spoken near the mouth of the
Columbia, which lost their speaking communities much earlier than the
upriver varieties, but which were apparently the source, in the late 1700s
or early 1800s, of most of the Chinookan-per-se items in the CJ lexicon.

Imagine a world in which all the native English-speakers were gone (and
mostly unattested), but there were still a few Frisians and Dutch-speakers.

lilEnd

        ROS' Haruo / 204 N 39th / Seattle WA 98103 / Usono
    lilandbr at scn.org / lilandbr at hotmail.com / tel 206-633-2434
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      ("la Esperantisto antauxe nomata Liland Brajant Ros'")





>From: Tony Johnson <Tony.Johnson at GRANDRONDE.ORG>
>Reply-To: Tony Johnson <Tony.Johnson at GRANDRONDE.ORG>
>To: CHINOOK at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
>Subject: Re: FN Language
>Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 14:36:07 -0800
>
>LaXayEm khanawi-Laksta (hello everyone),
>
>Just a quick note from the past.  As I was going through old email I
>found this quick post, and thought I should come to the defense of our
>Kiksht (upriver Chinook) speakers.  There are at least five speakers of
>Chinookan that I know of.  They all live on, or are associated with, the
>Yakama and Warm Springs reservations.  ALqi wEXt.
>
>Tony A. Johnson
>Grand Ronde, OR
>
> >>> "David D. Robertson" <ddr11 at COLUMBIA.EDU> 11/06/2003 7:33:09 AM
> >>>
>LhaXayam,
>
>The respondents could have been from the mouth of the Columbia, though
>FPCF's survey was of BC First Nations people; however it's very
>unlikely
>they spoke Chinook as opposed to CJ, I feel.  Though not a Chinookan
>specialist, I believe there are no speakers of the relevant Chinookan
>languages left.
>
>--Dave R.
>
>
>
>On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:12:56 -0800, Bernard Schulmann - home
><bernard.schulmann at LILLONET.CA> wrote:
>
> >Could not the answers also have been people from the mouth Columbia
>and
> >were speakers of the Chinook Aboriginal Language and did not mean
>jargon?
> >
> >Bernard Schulmann
> >Lillooet BC

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