Penutian "musmus"?

[Ros' Haruo]

So are the K and M words glossed as "black-tailed deer (sing.)" or
"black-tailed deer (pl.)"? Or canyou tell?

Is there any way (I suspect not) that CJ musmus could have given birth to
the K and M forms? Otherwise, I'd say you've clearly shot the Algonquian
etymon full of holes.

lilEnd


        ROS' Haruo / 204 N 39th / Seattle WA 98103 / Usono
    lilandbr at scn.org / lilandbr at hotmail.com / tel 206-633-2434
TTT-Himnaro Cigneta : http://www.geocities.com/cigneto/pretaj.html
Nove en La Lilandejo : http://www.geocities.com/lilandr/novaj.html
      ("la Esperantisto antauxe nomata Liland Brajant Ros'")





>From: "David D. Robertson" <ddr11 at COLUMBIA.EDU>
>Reply-To: "David D. Robertson" <ddr11 at COLUMBIA.EDU>
>To: CHINOOK at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
>Subject: Re: Penutian "musmus"?
>Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 00:50:42 -0400
>
>Here's something more specific, now that I've referred back to Berman's
>article:  from page 17, a set of proposed Plateau Penutian cognates having
>the meaning "black-tailed deer":
>
>K[lamath] -- mosmas, mosmos
>M[olala] -- mu(u)sims
>      musmalhq "doe" (malhq "she-one")
>      musqamlh "buck" (qamlh "he-one")
>
>These forms bear a closer resemblance to the CJ word for "cow" than the
>proposed Algonquian source-words do.
>
>--Dave
>
>
>
>
>On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:57:22 -0400, David D. Robertson
><ddr11 at COLUMBIA.EDU> wrote:
>
> >I was just glancing at Howard Berman's IJAL vol. 62 article, The Position
> >of Molala in Plateau Penutian, and saw a form for "deer" that looked
> >rather like CJ musmus "cow".  Could the Jargon term have any roots in the
> >Penutian one?
> >
> >As implausible as that may sound, and as widely accepted as an Algonquian
> >etymology for musmus is, I can imagine a situation in which early CJ
> >already had the word mawich for "deer" (from Southern Waskashan, that is
> >Nootkan); maybe this would make existing widespread Oregon words like
> >musmus more likely and useful as terms for "cow".  As we know, terms for
> >animals were often shared among unrelated & not-closely-related languages
> >in the NW...
> >
> >I think no one has proposed S. Wakashan sources for musmus.
> >
> >Now, if musmus is Penutian rather than Algonquian, this tends to make the
> >latter seem a more minor contributor than thought.  (Because there are
> >relatively few other CJ words considered to be of Algonquian origin.)
> >
> >Reactions?

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