"Old employee, formerly of the Hudson Bay Company" - to Jeff Kopp

[Tom Larsen]

Yeah, I also grew up hearing "2 bits" used for quarters, also 4 bits for
50 cents and 6 bits for 75 cents, although I think my father was the
only actual person I ever really heard talk about any number of bits
greater than two.  I also remember back in the 70s as an adult standing
in line to buy movie tickets (Star Wars, as I recall) and hearing some
weird old man arguing with some younger guy and using the "2 bits".  The
younger guy didn't understand the term "2 bits," and the older guy
seemed very indignant about that.  It occurred to me at the time that I
hadn't heard that term used in a while, and that I also probably hadn't
used it myself in some time.

The story I always heard about "bits" was this (and I have no idea how
authoritative this is):  it supposedly comes from "pieces-of-eight".
These were Spanish coins that were scored so that you could break off
pieces of them to make change.  I don't know if the whole coin was worth
One Real (note that it's "Real," plural "Reales," NOT singular "Reale")
or not, but hey were scored so as to make a total of eight pieces, hence
the name.  It  was said that people tipically broke off the pieces by
putting the coin in their mouths and biting off a piece.  Hence one
piece of the coin was one "bit."  Note that if the entire coin (1 Real,
or what ever it was) is equal to 100 centavos, then one-eighth of 100
centavos is worth 12 and 1/2 centavos.  And therefore, two-eighths, or 2
bits, would be 25 centavos, which of course would then carry over to 25
cents, or a quarter, in U.S. money.

Tom Larsen

Database Management and Catalog Librarian
Branford Price Millar Library
Portland State University
P.O. Box 1151
Portland, OR 97207-1151

phone: 503-725-8179
fax:   503-725-5799

email: larsent at pdx.edu



Robert Kentta wrote:

>That's interesting history of the term "bit" that I'd never heard an
>explanation of before - I grew up hearing people refer to quarters (25 cent
>pieces) as "2 bits"- 4 bits is a 50 cent piece.
>
>.......and am I the only one who remembers the old cheer..... "2 bits, 4
>bits, 6 bits, a dollar, all for Siletz (or whatever team), stand up and
>holler"
>
>Robert Kentta
>Siletz Tribe - Cultural Resources
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Leanne Riding" <riding at TIMETEMPLE.COM>
>To: <CHINOOK at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>
>Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 11:12 PM
>Subject: Re: "Old employee, formerly of the Hudson Bay Company" - to Jeff
>Kopp
>
>
>
>
>>I think I did have a chance to see it, now that you mention it -- and
>>took a shot at trying to figure out which one it was... I never got very
>>far, though I made some inroads. Seems to me that the approach I took
>>was to study the word "bit," gave a specific currency value. I then
>>distracted myself by learning a little about the valuation of American
>>dimes. Something about how many "bits" was equal to one Spanish Real??
>>or another Spanish coin?? Something about a half dime??
>>
>>Looking for my notes...
>>Oh here are my notes...
>>
>>My notes say:
>>
>>"The book comes 30 years after 1817, according to the introductionit
>>comes after 1847." Can't remember what the introduction said.
>>
>>I looked at spelling of the word "mar-kook" (was that in there?)but
>>decided that this "has been a consistent and popular spelling throughout
>>the years." ie. John Jewitt in the early 1800s, Stannard some 50 odd
>>years later, Owen Wister "JimmyJohn Boss," 1900. I'm not a linguist
>>though, what do I know?
>>
>>Here is what I wrote about the half dimes:
>>
>>"The book mentions that "bit" means dimes and half-dimes. This word
>>"bit" changes depending on what is in circulation at the time it is
>>recorded. Initially, a "bit" was a silver Spanish Reale. One dictionary
>>that I have read mentions that the word "bit" meant one dime, or 12 1/2
>>cents (the valuation of a Spanish Reale at the time). Apparently the
>>Reale circulated up until the late 1850s, when the gold rushes caused
>>gold to become more available than silver. The silver Reales were
>>hoarded and melted down because they had become more valuable as
>>bullion. After 1837, dimes and half dimes became popular. 1873 was the
>>last time the half-dime was issued. It became rarer due to hoarding
>>during the civil war, but still existed in circulation. So we have
>>established a time period of 1847-1873. But it could go on after 1873,
>>and anyway, the author might include it out of nostalgia."
>>
>>Hmmmm... this next part is interesting -- I wonder if I was right about
>>the following (not really sure, as I tend to write my notes more
>>confidently than I actually feel):
>>
>>"Here's an important clue: The author mentions that in the last census,
>>the number of tribes was numbered at about 50. Well, this is an
>>excellent clue. This did not begin until the census of 1880. According
>>to the Report of the Superintendent of the Census...1889 (p. 26) "An
>>attempt was made...to enumerate [Indians living on reservations] upon a
>>very elaborate plan, and many of the tribes, particularly those on the
>>west coast, a full enumeration was obtained; but the investigation was
>>stopped by the failure of the appropriation, and was not resumed." The
>>relevant schedule for this census is the 1880 Questionnaire-Schedule 1,
>>"Indian Division". (University of Virginia Geospatial and Statistical
>>Data Center. United States Historical Census Data Browser. ONLINE. 1998.
>>University of Virginia. Available:
>>http://fisher.lib.virginia.edu/census/. [Tuesday, January 27, 2004].) In
>>1890 and onward they recorded similar but not quite so extensive
>>information, which also included tribal affiliation."
>>
>>I added to myself: "Therefore, our date is now firmly fixed 1880 or later.
>>Mr. Eels also helped here. He lived in Union City at the time."
>>
>>Wonder what I meant by "here" -- with the Census, or with the book???.
>>That part could be pure speculation, or wrong.
>>
>>I add, "Perhaps our little booklet was created for the purpose of
>>interviewing a native person for the next census."
>>
>>and "I'm wondering if this might not be written by John Kelly, an
>>interpreter who did work for the US department of education regarding
>>Alaska in 1889-1890."
>>
>>So I think, what I was about to decide, before I quite writing my notes,
>>was that the booklet was put together as part of the "very elaborate
>>plan" of carrying out the 1880 census. I am unsure why I mentioned
>>Eells, or why I thought that John Kelly might have been involved with
>>the book.
>>
>>- Leanne :)
>>
>>
>>Jeffrey Kopp wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Whoa, great detective work, guys!
>>>
>>>When did the "Our Roots" project appear, and how is it related to
>>>canadiana.org?
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>
>>>Jeff
>>>
>>>P.S. Perhaps I should put up the "Houts mystery dictionary" again for
>>>possible identification; Francisc never got to see it. and am not sure
>>>Leanne has--although it is almost certainly from outside her
>>>neighborhood (looks like southern Puget Sound).
>>>
>>>
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