Is the word "Tuschohatchie" of CJ origin?

Wed Jan 4 07:36:23 UTC 2006

Hi Jonathan,

I have never heard of a word in Chinook Jargon that sounds anything like 
Tuscohatchie.  That and the fact that you haven't been able to find it 
in any CJ glossary suggests very strongly that it is indeed not of 
Chinook Jargon origin.  And yet for some reason the name sounded 
strangely familiar to me.

I did a Google search on Washington geographic names, and among the many 
hits that I got, I found this Web page:

http://search.tpl.lib.wa.us/wanames/placfulld.asp?2-7719

which suggested this origin for the name:

"Two connected lakes on the north slope of Granite Mountain are three 
miles west of Snoqualmie Pass in east central King County. The upper 
lake is 58.3 acres, the lower 31.8 acres. The lake was named by The 
Mountaineers. Doug Cardle in his book on King County place name origins 
indicates that the name may be from the Muskogian Indian name for 
"stream of the warrior." In Muskogia "tushka" is warrior and "hachi" is 
a stream. (Cardle, King County, p. 110)."

With regards to that "stream" business, note that there is also a 
Tuscohatchie Creek in Washington.  Anyway, Muskogean languages were 
originally spoken in Southeastern United States.  One has to wonder why 
two lakes and a creek in Washington would have a name deriving from a 
language spoken in the opposite corner of the country, but maybe one of 
"The Mountaineers" (whoever they are) were from that part of the 
country.  In any case this did jog my memory as to why the name sounded 
familiar.  Wasn't there some song way back when about someone named 
Billy Joe who threw something off the TALLAHATCHIE bridge?  Tallahatchie 
is similar enough to Tuscohatchie that this probably explains why I 
thought the name sounded familiar.  There is a Tallahatchie River and a 
Tallahatchie County in Mississippi, and another Google search turned up 
this Web page:

http://www.mymississippigenealogy.com/ms_county/tal.htm

which claims that

"Tallahatchie is an Indian name meaning Rock River"

Notice that both Tuscohatchie and Tallahatchie contain "hatchie", and 
both words contain "stream/river" as part of their alleged meanings, so 
maybe there is something to this.  The second Web site doesn't say what 
language this alleged "Indian" word comes from, but Choctaw is a 
Muskogean language spoken in Mississippi, so maybe there is at least a 
grain of truth of all of these allegations.

But it's also interesting to note that in the same way that Chinook 
Jargon served as a lingua franca in the Northwest, there was also a 
Mobilian Jargon that served as a lingua franca in the Southeast.  
Mobilian Jargon was derived largely from Muskogean languages as well as 
some of the other languages of the region.  With this in mind, I thumbed 
rather quickly through _Mobilian Jargon: Linguistic and Sociohistorical 
Aspects of a Native American Pidgin_ by Emanuel J. Drechsel (Oxford 
University Press, 1997). In this book I found a number of things that 
may confirm both of the above etymologies.

- On p. 101, Drechsel gives the word "tale" as the Mobilian Jargon word 
for "rock".  This could be the "Talla" of Tallahatchie ("rock river").

- On p. 171, he gives the word "tashka" as the Choctaw word for 
"warrior", though he also seems to be saying (without my actually having 
read the whole section very carefully) that this could also be a 
Mobilian Jargon word. This word is probably the "Tusco" of 
"Tuscohatchie" ("warrior stream").  It is also apparently the "Tusca" of 
"Tuscaloosa", a city in Alabama ("loosa" being related to the Choctaw 
... and also Mobilian Jargon? ... word "losa" meaning "black"; "Black 
Warrrior" was the name of a Creek chief.)

- On p. 318, he gives "hacca" as the Choctaw word for "river".  This 
word is probably related to the "hatchie" of Tuscohatchie and 
Tallahatchie.  It is also related to the first two syllables of 
"Atchafalaya", the name of a river in Louisiana.  (The word "falaya" is 
the Choctaw word for "long".) Drechsel suggests that the "Choctaw" name 
Atchafalaya entered English through the medium of Mobilian Jargon.

So given all of that, I'm now inclined to think, unlikely as it might 
seem, that Doug Cardle's etymology for Tuscohatchie is correct.  It 
would be interesting to know how this Muskogean/Choctaw/Mobilian Jargon 
or whatever it is word made it up to Washington amongst all of the other 
places with CJ names.  Does anyone know who "The Mountaineers" cited on 
that Web page are?

-- 
Tom Larsen

Database Management and Catalog Librarian
Branford Price Millar Library
Portland State University
P.O. Box 1151
Portland, OR 97207-1151

Jonathan Pryce wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>This is my first posting to the list.  Please be warned I'm not a scholar,
>just a special needs school teacher who began to ask questions about place
>names in the Pacific NW and so "stumbled" onto the Jargon.
>
>Tuscohatchie is a place name, two lakes namely, an upper and a lower, in
>the SW Alpine Lakes Wilderness area just NW of Snoqualmie Pass.  Said pass
>is some 50 miles east of Seattle.
>
>I ask because, as in much of the Washington State Cascades, this patch is
>richly endowed with place names of CJ origin, e.g., Kaleetan Peak and Lake,
>the aptly named Melakwa Lake, Talapus Lake, Ollalie Lake (berry picking is
>better at Kaleetan Lake), Lake Kulla Kulla and other CJ place names.
>
>After reading Jim Holton's CJ book--my first proper introduction to the
>Jargon--I suspect these appellations are the work of A. H. Sylvester, an
>employee with the Unites States Geological Survey in late 19th and early
>20th centuries.  The first topographical maps of the area were produced
>around this time.  Sylvester's name appears on many early maps, including
>my copy of the 1898 Snoqualmie Pass 30 min. topo.  Holton mentions an
>amusing story relating to the Sylvester's naming of a dog and a peak.
>
>I've never found Tuscohatchie in any of the CJ glossaries I'm familiar
>with.  Anyone know?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Jonathan Pryce
>Seattle, Washington
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>---------------
>Jonathan Pryce
>(206) 783-3175
>
>Keep trying.  There's always more toothpaste in the tube.
>
>To respond to the CHINOOK list, click 'REPLY ALL'.  To respond privately to the sender of a message, click 'REPLY'.  Hayu masi!
>
>
>  
>

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