[EDLING:594] RE: Spanish question

[John S. Mayher]

yup -- again

But the traditional grammarians who write prescriptive grammar and
usage texts for schools and the English teachers who use them see
this as a MAJOR FLAW -- nearly a capital offence -- equivalent to the
equally dreaded FRAGMENT. (My personal problem as a high school
student was not using a comma before a coordinating conjunction
joining two independent clauses -- also treated very seriously.)

The real world rarely follows such prescriptions, but everyone
remains anxious. Hence the popularity of Eats, Shoots and Leaves.

John



>I think another distinction in usage in the US is between formal
>academic writing and other less formal genres.  Maybe I'm mistaken,
>but I believe you can find two independent clauses connected with a
>comma in newspapers and magazines rather commonly.
>
>Can anyone out there confirm this?  (Maybe with a newspaper or
>magazine style guide?)
>
>Miriam E Ebsworth <mee1 at nyu.edu> wrote:
>
>I've also found that the famous comma splice is perfectly fine in
>British English but can get you into big trouble in the good old USA.
>My Anglo-Welsh spouse says we're 2 people separated by a common
>language.
>Yup.
>Miriam
>
>Miriam Eisenstein Ebsworth, Ph.D.
>
>Director of Doctoral Programs in Multilingual Multicultural Studies
>New York University,635 East Building
>239 Greene St., New York, NY 10003
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Federica Barbieri
>Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 4:25 pm
>Subject: [EDLING:584] RE: Spanish question
>
>>  I am a native speaker of Italian, and as far as I know, in
>>  Italian, as in
>>  Spanish, it is fine to connect two independant clauses with a
>>  comma. I was
>>  never taught that is is wrong and I have seen that many ti! mes in
>>  formal
>>  written Italian (e.g., editorials and newspaper articles in major
>>  newspapers).
>>  In fact I was surprised to see it marked as an error when I firts
>>  got here in
>>  the States. My impression is that British English is more flexible
>>  than
>>  American English in this respect (run-ons, etc.). I would guess
>>  that
>>  punctuation is not universal and is culture-dependant...
>>
>>  Cheers,
>>  Federica
>>
>>
>>  >===== Original Message From edling at ccat.sas.upenn.edu =====
>>  >(Apologies for multiple posts)
>>  >
>>  >In teaching English writing to international students, we teach
>>  that a
>>  >sentence like:
>>  >"I am a lawyer(,) it is a good job."
>>  >is a "run-on" sentence (with or without the comma).
>>  >Reason = because two independent clauses/ simple sentences like
>>  these two
>>  >halves ne! ed to be connected with some type of coordinating
>>  conjunction, or
>>  >separated by a semi-colon or other sentence-final punctuation.
>>  Not the most
>>  >eloquent explanation, but you get the picture.
>>  >
>>  >Over the years, I have had several (otherwise highly educated)
>>  Spanish-
>>  >speakers from various countries tell me that this construction is
>>  acceptable>in Spanish. I studied Spanish for many years and was
>>  never told this,
>>  although
>>  >perhaps because the English rules for connection/separation are also
>>  >acceptable in Spanish, they transferred into my Spanish writing
>>  w/o a problem
>>  >and the language difference just went undetected.
>>  >
>>  >So I ask: in formal written Spanish (or other languages, for that
>>  matter), is
>>  >this "run-on" construction acceptable? Or has it just become so
>>  pervasive
>>  that!
>>  >it's never questioned and erroneously considered to be
>>  "standard"? We
>>  >certainly do that in English with sentence *fragments* such as
>>  "And I
>>  agreed."
>>  >(as well as in the previous question I just started with "Or".)In
>>  speech it's
>>  >different obvously, but in a grammar/writing class, technically,
>>  this would
>>  >get marked "incorrect," even though it's visible in just about
>>  every piece of
>>  >written composition on the market, from newspaper articles to
>>  textbooks, etc.
>>  >
>>  >What's the scoop?
>>  >
>>  >Thanks,
>>  >Laura
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >--
>>
>>  *****************
>>  Federica Barbieri
>>  Research Assistant, Office of Academic Assessment
>  > Northern Arizona University
>>  329 Peterson Hall BOX 4091
>>  Flagstaff, AZ 86011-4091
>>  Tel.: (928) 523 8655
>>  email: Federica.Barbieri at NAU.EDU
>>  http://www4.nau.edu/assessment
>>
>>  PhD Program in Applied Linguistics
>>  Department of English
>>  Northern Arizona University
>>  Liberal Arts Building, BOX 6032
>>  Flagstaff, AZ 86011-6032
>>
>>
>
>
>
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--
John S. Mayher
Professor, English Education				email:
john.mayher at nyu.edu
Department of Teaching and Learning
Steinhardt School of Education			Phone: 212-998-5245
New York University				Fax: 212-995-4049
239 Greene Street, 2nd Floor
New York, NY 10003
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