response unit for E-prime 2.0 Professional with ERP hardware

Wed Jun 20 11:22:27 UTC 2012

Hi,

Actually, come to think of it, "psychological effects as being under-rated
in comparison with timing precision" is not quite my point. Rather, both
psychological effects and timing precision are very much over-rated in
comparison to the middle levels. That is, with psychological effects
("higher level"), we can think of, say, a lexical decision making task
taking 100 ms longer (about 10%, given that RTs are a bit longer) with
word/picture incongruency. Then, the timing error can be in your hardware
connection (say, polling rate) or software (e-prime, or say, windows
wondering whether there's a lan connection). I'd call both these a more
"lower level". To drive the point, I'll term the in-between part the central
level*: how much time does it take from initiation of movement (say, the
first millimeter of moving the finger downward) to actual "captured button
press". In the thread mentioned earlier, I suggested that there's good
reason to believe that this can be quite a bit; that motor noise may well
make it more difficult to find effects; and that there's no reason to
completely rule out that precious psychological effects may occur after
response initiation ("true RT") but before response capture ("measured RT")
by hardware, which is quite independent of timing errors and should be a
cause for concern. It's a bit like allowing two reactions - in a lexical
decision: "it's a word, oh no, it's actually not" and then reporting only
the second reaction (I think it's an unspoken rule that this is incorrect,
would people agree? I've heard of people who enter the correct answer as the
only allowable and then measure RTs - which rather inflates them).

To conclude on a more positive note: I thought I'd just like to say: make
sure you have a really light response-box, joystick, or gamepad.

Cheers,

Mich

* sorry, silly joke, I don't really see the arm as a central processing unit
- but has anyone else noticed how psychologists just love to call this or
that process occurring at a "central" level?

From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Michiel Sovijarvi-Spape
Sent: 20 June 2012 12:36
To: e-prime at googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: response unit for E-prime 2.0 Professional with ERP hardware

Hi,

Moved from Nottingham to Helsinki, but yes, the issue remains :) On a
related topic, I made some custom software to use the XBOX360 controller
connected to E-Prime (also, for use as very cheap haptic system) - builds
available here, but I've no problem with releasing the source (in c#). See:
http://cognitology.eu/Experiments.htm (under vibro-tactile feature
integration). For adventurous coders, I suppose. 

Best,

Michiel

From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Chris Jones
Sent: 19 June 2012 21:43
To: e-prime at googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: response unit for E-prime 2.0 Professional with ERP hardware

I'd also like to thank Ben very much for this information.  I came to this
group looking for instructions on how to build a serial or parallel response
box.  My department won't be able to approve a response box until the fall
and I want some data now... 

The game controller option makes sense for so many reasons, including the
psychological effect or context effect - perhaps pulling for more valid data
- particularly in a stop signal paradigm.   Seems to fit with what Mich
(Psychology, Nottingham; sorry don't have thread handy) elsewhere about
psychological effects as being under-rated in comparison with timing
precision... 

Just to review: I can use a Logitech game pad - for example
http://www.logitech.com/en-ca/gaming/controllers/7360

and download a driver...  I don't actually see a place to download drivers
of the type Ben describes, but there is this information:  

____________________________________

DirectInput (D)

DirectInput mode works with Windows drivers to enable basic input
functionality. This input mode also lets you use the Logitech Gaming
Software to customize the inputs for games that don't normally allow you to
do so, or don't have gamepad support at all.

You can use the Logitech Gaming Software with DirectInput mode to assign a
specific key or key combination to any of the buttons or thumbsticks on the
gamepad. You can also assign each thumbstick to work like a joystick or
mouse.

NOTE: Logitech doesn't provide configuration software for non-Windows
systems, but many games allow you to configure inputs in-game. DirectInput
mode lets the gamepad communicate with the drivers on many such systems.

__________________________________________

...And so using a driver and/or the above information, I will be able to
assign an ASCII key or number to one or more gamepad buttons, right? 

And e-prime will be able to add this device - as an input device or the
type, "response box"?  

And then what about the timing errors?   I'm not so concerned, but can
anyone estimate the timing errors for data logging?  Is there a way to
minimize the error by changing the input refresh rate somewhere?  

Thanks so much, 

Chris 

Chris Jones, Ph.D.

Department of Psychology

Kwantlen Polytechnic University

Surrey, BC, Canada 

On Wednesday, April 22, 2009 6:17:25 AM UTC-7, ben wrote:

i've used a couple different USB controllers for this purpose over the
years.  they're so much cheaper than the cedrus boxes or the pst response
boxes. 

both controllers i've used, and i would imagine all controllers of this
type, have an accompanying driver which you download from the manufacturer's
website and which allows you to assign a value to the various controller
buttons.  presses on the controller mimic keyboard button presses, so all
you need to do in eprime is set the object collecting responses to look for
a keyboard response (as opposed to a response from a mouse or a pst response
box).  for instance, set the object to accept '0' or '1', and then assign
one button on the controller to be '0' and the other to be '1', turn off all
the other buttons, and you're good to go.

pretty straight forward.

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/gaming/pc_gaming/gamepads/devices/301
<http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/gaming/pc_gaming/gamepads/devices/301&cl=
US,EN> &cl=US,EN

ben

On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 7:56 AM, Jeffrey Bedwell <jbedwell at mail.ucf.edu>
wrote:

Thanks for this info. Are you using this gamepad with E-Prime? If so,
do you write script to tell the software how to interact with the
gamepad?

-Jeff

On Apr 21, 9:20 am, baltimore.... at gmail.com wrote:

> we use the logitech precision usb gamepad.
>

> On Apr 10, 2009 2:09pm, Jeffrey Bedwell <jbedw... at mail.ucf.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi. I was wondering if anyone has suggestions for a button response
> > unit to use with E-Prime 2.0 Professional in the context of ERP/EEG
> > experiments? The PST response unit does not appear to be ideal for
> > this because it has an A/C power cable coming up to the unit that may
> > cause interference with the ERP signal. I'd like some type of video
> > game controller or wireless unit that the participant can hold in
> > their lap comfortably. Also, if it can plug into USB port, that may be
> > ideal. Does anyone have any suggestions? Also, if anyone has
> > successfully used the PST response unit in the context of ERP/EEG
> > equipment, please let me know your thoughts on this. Thanks. I'd
> > appreciate any feedback!
> > Jeffrey S. Bedwell, Ph.D.
> > Assistant Professor
> > Department of Psychology

> > University of Central Florida- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"E-Prime" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/cEXjWgmdWi0J.
To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"E-Prime" group.
To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group.
To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/eprime/attachments/20120620/63959905/attachment.htm>