[gothic-l] Athanareiks = Heidrek?

[M. Carver]

Hails!

I quote here some of Koebler's etymological notes on which I based my
distinction (though one should not stop there for good IE etymology), not
meant to counteract you but clarify myself:

aiza "honour, inhibition, respect" from germ. aizo, F, Scheu, Ehre, Achtung;
idg. ais-(2), V., ehrfuerchtig sein, verehren

athans "edel" s. *athal,
athal "edel" s. *othal; s. germ. *athal, N., Vornehmheit; idg. ?
othal "stammgut, erbsitz" s. haimothli: germ. *othalaz, M., Erbgut, Landgut;
vgl. idg. *atos, *atta, M., F., Vater, Mutter

As you see, Koebler derives these from ais-(2) and atos/atta respectively. I
am not familiar with any z>th or th<z rule, direct or indirect, in gothic
phonology. It is quite possible that the Goths had such as word as *hauhiths
meaning "honor" or with some other derivation (? *haid-); I am not familiar
with the etymology of heidr but I assumed heidr < ha'r "high," (cf. Go.
hauhs) with a dental nominalizing suffix, yet it seems by modern swedish
"heder" that it had -r- in the stem (otherwise this would not be preserved
in modern times). *eirr itself could have been disfavored among the
North-Germanics because of confusion with eir "copper, ore." If heidr
derives from a root altogether unattested in Go. (e.g. *haiths, haid-
"honored") And although Go. haidus "manner, mode" (cf. NHG -heit, MnE -hood,
-head) originates from an IE root (s)kai- meaning supposedly something like
light or bright, neither that nor the similarity of haidus with heidr is
enough to convince me of a parallel and cognate usage, esp. in view of the
meaning of the former.

Of course it might be possible that a borrowing occured in nymic custom and
one tribe, not having in popular use or with exact meaning the cognate form,
substituted it for another. Surely the heritage from germanic unity remained
to govern that custom in some respect so that similar names or names with
similar ideas or themes would be given pan-germanically -- if the tribal
interaction of later times was not already enough to inspire such epigony.
Naturally the names Heidrek and Athanariks exemplify much similarity in
meaning, despite the difference which you suggest below -- and brilliantly
so in my opinion.


Matþaius

on 12/1/00 3:33 PM, sig at sigmund at algonet.se wrote:

> Frank and Matt, 
> 
> It seems Matþaius sees little chance for a similar origin
> in
> Go. for Heid-Heidur-hauhiþs (honor) and Athana-atta-athala.
> Matt rules out any origin for Athan- in Go. aiza, menaing
> honor.
> 
> Maybe you're right. However, it's interesting to note that
> modern Swedish has kept Heidur and *aiza- in the sense of
> honor both. But there is a distinction between honor and
> honor:
> 
> Heidur is today's "heder" in the sense of 'honor' in an
> ethic-social context, like family honor.
> *aiza- is perhaps today's "ära" which also means 'honor' but
> more in a purely social meaning, =repute.
> Frequently one sees those two together in a proverbial
> context as "heder och ära".
> 
> This theory relies heavily on my assumption that Go. "z"
> has
> some relation with r, which it could have if drawing from
> the little I have seen in superficial sanscrit
> studies, where they seem to treat toning r (with a dot under
> it) as a vowel pronounced vocalized rs, ~= vocalized z. If
> this holds up there might perhaps be some chance that a
> gliding from r to z to th has occured, creating athana out
> of ärana, 'with honor'. Hence Athanareiks and Heidrek could
> indeed convey the same or similar meaning of honorfull
> leader or
> honor-rich.
> 
> Just a thought from a linguistic tinkerer.
> 
> Seigmund


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