[gothic-l] Re: Germanic Migrations

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

Hi again, I would just like to add a further interesting reference
about the Germanic 'Urheimat' (=origin) problem. The linguist Oesten
Dahl has recently published a paper called " The Origin of
Scandinavian Languages".

Dahl starts by presenting the old so called 'Common Nordic
Hypothesis'  (i.e. out-of-Scandinavia) citing 19th. C. linguist
Noreen, but also Robertson (1993).

Dahl argues "However, recent research has tended to associated the
genesis of the Germanic peoples as an identifiable grouping with the
rise of the iron technology in northern Europe, notable the Jastorf
culture whose centre was situated in present-day Lower Saxony
(Germany) aproximately between 600-300 BCE......places the
(pre-Jastorf) Urheimat firmly between Elbe, the Erzgebirge and the
Thuringian Forest, a fair distance from Scandinavia.... Scandinavia
does not, by and large, share any of the oldest layers of Germanic
place names."(p.5)

See also the comments by Prof. Elert below

Dirk


--- In gothic-l at egroups.com, dirk at s... wrote:
> Hi, below are the answers given to me by Prof. Elert a Swedish
> linguist about the problem of the origin of Germanic/Proto-Germanic.
> (the numbered questions are from me, the answer/view below was given
> by Prof. Elert).
>
> > Dear Dr. Dirk Faltin,
> My answwers to your questions:
> >(1)  I would like to know if the the whole text is available in
> English?
> Answer: No.
> >
> (2) Can you clarify for me when, in your view, the settlement of
> Germanic/Proto-Germanic people of  Scandinavia started?
>
> My view is that the spread of the Germanic language took place in
> 1000-500 BC, most likely around 700 BC. I would not use the word
> "settlement" . There is no reason to assume an invasion or massive
> migration, rather a language shift.
>
> (3) and possibly from which site?
>
> It is generally assumed that there was a Germanic-speaking
population
> in parts of NW Germany aroudn 1000 BC. The hypothetic language
shift
> could be due to influence (and limited migration) fron this area
into
> Scandinavia. Other possibilities cannot be excluded. The Bronze Age
> is
> period of much commerce and other connections between tribal
> societies
> in Europe. There are linguistic traces of  early contacts between
> Germanic and the Baltic languages.
> Yours,
> Claes-Christian Elert
>
>
>
> As Elert is seen as leading expert on Scandinavian linguistics, I
> thought his views should be interesting to others on the list. His
> views are in line with recent linguistic research on Germanic
> language
> development by Juergen Udolph. Both Udolph and Elert are seen as
> 'cutting edge' on the subject.
>
> Dirk
>
>
>
> --- In gothic-l at egroups.com, MCLSSAA2 at f... wrote:
> > --- In gothic-l at egroups.com, dirk at s... wrote:
> > > ... Saxony-Anhalt and Thuringia ...
> > > One short question. If the first Germans came to this area say
> > > Thuringia in 500 BC from Scandinavia as you seem to suggest,
who
> was
> > > living there before this. The area was never settled by Celts.
> Were
> > > they the remnants of the earlier megalithic cultures?
> >
> > Likely speaking a non-Indo-European language, which perished
> > unrecorded while the Middle East had had writing for over 1500
> years.
> > It is one of the greatest pities in linguistics that parchment
> wasn't
> > invented much sooner. Literacy needs bulk available writing
> material,
> > which meant:-
> >   (1) The area being arid enough for clay tablets to survive, or
> >   (2) The area being within sailing range of Egypt to import
blank
> > papyrus, plus having something to trade for it.
> >   Central Europe is neither.
> >   Until someone discovered how to make parchment from animal skin.


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