[gothic-l] Re: The Langobards from Scania/Scadanan

[Tore Gannholm]

>--- In gothic-l at egroups.com, bertil <mvk575b at t...> wrote:
>>>
>> It might well be that Paul the Deacon was
>> influenced by Jordanes, but so far I have
>> not seen any evidence of that. And even
>> if he hypothetically was, that does not
>> affect the validity of his writing.
>>
>
>I just wanted to point to the danger of just accepting a historical
>record written some 700 to 800 years after the event as absolute
>truth. As I said, the Franks had their history recorded much earlier
>than Paulus, but still claimed a place of origin which nobody today
>would believe. (i.e. Greece, with Primaos of Troy as first Frankish
>king). If the Franks had settled in Italy, they may have chosen the
>island of Scadanan or something similar to the Gothic history. I think
> if Paulus was influenced by the Gothic history, this would certainly
>qualify his writing. This does naturally not exclude the possibility
>that Paulus account is fully reliable, but we have to look at other
>sources and evidence as well.

A very interesting earlier parallell is:
Tacitus writes: "In the traditional songs which form their only record of
the past the Germans celebrate an earth-born god called Tuisto. His son
Mannus is supposed to be the fountain-head of their race and himself to
have begotten three sons who gave their names to three groups of tribes"

In Guta saga which is the foreword to Guta lagh written down about 1220 the
following can be found:

"Gutland hitti fyrsti mathr than sum thieluar hit. tha war gutland so
eluist at thet daghum sanc Oc natum war uppj. En thann mathr quam fyrsti
eldi a land Oc sithan sanc thet aldri.
thissi thieluar hafthi ann sun sum hit hafthi. En haftha cuna hit huita
stierna thaun tu bygthu fyrsti agutlandi fyrstu nat sum thaun saman suafu
tha droymdi hennj draumbr. So sum thrir ormar warin slungnir saman j barmj
hennar Oc thytti hennj sum thair  scrithin yr barmi hennar. thinna draum
segthi han firi hastha bonda sinum hann riath dravm thinna so. Alt ir
baugum bundit bo land al thitta wartha oc faum thria syni aiga. thaim gaf
hann namn allum o fydum. guti al gutland aigha graipr al annar haita Oc
gunfiaun thrithi. thair sciptu sithan gutlandi i thria thrithiunga. So at
graipr thann elzti laut northasta thrithiung oc guti mithal thrithiung En
gunfiaun thann yngsti laut sunnarsta "

Tore

>
>Dirk
>
>
>>
>> But I think it would be valuable if we tried to
>> differ between Germans and Germanic peoples.
>> Not all Germanic peoples have their origin in
>> Germany. Many have, and don't think it would cross
>> the mind of any Scandinavian to try to include
>> the Suebi or the Alemanni as originating in
>> Scandinavia.
>>
>> Gothically
>>
>> Bertil
>
>I think nobody would equate Germanic people with modern Germans,
>especially not Germans as they call themselves 'Deutsche' not
>'Germanen' as you know.
>
>Dirk
>
>
>> > it is possible that a small Langobardic group maybe a royal clan
>came
>> > to the main Langobardic settlement area in North Germany from
>> > Scandinavia.
>
>
>
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