[gothic-l] Re: The Langobards from Scania/Scadanan

Wed Nov 22 02:52:08 UTC 2000

Bengt,
Could you elaborate on "Such things put ants in the hair and give new 
questions"?  Do you mean they actually put insects in their hair? If 
so, to what purpose?  Which classical author refers to this custom?
Another point to bear in mind is that the Romans sometimes mixed up 
German and Celtic tribes, particularly those on the borders of Celtic 
and German regions.  Perhaps these had mixed customs and were 
bilingual?

Brian

--- In gothic-l at egroups.com, "Bengt  Hemtun" <hemtun at s...> wrote:
> Thanks Dirk
> 
 for bringing in archaeology to the discussion. I do not trust in 
> occasional Roman notes about tribes without archaeological physical 
> evidence confirming. The Scandinavians were Germanic people and 
they 
> belonged to the Celts and at least some belonged to the Swebian 
> league some finds show. I note also the Celtic neck-ring in 
Northern 
> Germany and the biggest found in Poland!
> .
> The linguists tell that the Scandinavian languages are Germanic. 
The 
> Gothic is an East Germanic language according to my Oxford concise. 
> Is there any kinship there? I mean between Gothic and Germanic 
people.
> Once I made a list of German tribes mentioned by Tacitus 55 - 120 
AD. 
> This does not mean that he knew all German tribes!
> The listed tribes are a pick-out from the books about Germania with 
> the number mentioned if given.
> .
> Angli third of seven tribes at Anglia (Aviones, Nuithones, 
Suardones, 
> Teutones, etc.) Germania 40
> Angrivari at Allers/Wesser together with Chamaves they banished the 
> Brukts Germania 33 
> Chasuari and Chattuari inland Frisia
> Batavi was a Chatti tribe on an island at the mouth of Rhine 
Germania 
> 29
> Burgundians at Weichsel pacified in 250 AD and in 277 AD north of 
> Alamanni near Mainz
> Chatti were the dominating tribe living on the other side of the 
> Mattiakes. J Grimm tells they lived in Hessenin and were together 
> with the Frisi the only survivors of the old tribes. Germania 30
> Chauki inland of Frisia and neighbour to the Chatti
> Cheruski in the same neighbourhood.
> Dulgibini and Chattuari Germania 34 
> Fenni, Venede, Slav, Peucini Germania 46
> Fosi neighbour to the Cheruski Germani 36
> Hellusii and Oxioni with human face on animal body lived in 
> Scandinavia
> Hermundurii later called Thüringians lived around the wells of Elbe 
> at Werra and Saale Germania 41 
> Kvades in Mähren Germania 42
> Lombards downstreams Elbe alied with the Kvades after being 
defeated 
> by Tiberius
> Lemovi and Rugi in Pommern 
> Lugi. Hari, Helvecons, Manimi, Helisi at Riesengebirge and the 
Sudets 
> Germania 43
> Marcomanni in Bohemia
> Mattiaci south Batavians near Wiesbaden Germania 39
> Naharnavales. Warthe 
> Nariski near the Hermunduri (Thuringians) Germania 42
> Nemeti, Vangini, Tribokes on the shores of Rhine
> Nervij at Eiffel near Sambre and Schelde
> Semnoni most noble in the Suebian league
> Suebi consisted of 54 tribes (Orosius) from Danube to the North Sea 
> such as Alamanni, Kvades, Semnoni, Marcomanni Germania 58
> Tenkteri near Cologne Germania 32 
> Ubians at Cologne
> Usipetes at Bingen Germania 32
>  
> I am sorry if I have not get all the endings right. My Latin could 
be 
> better. The texts are translated from Swedish.
> The list does not get them all but is still a time cut from the age 
> of Tacitus. I see that Ptolemeius have some more names at the 
coasts 
> on the Baltic Seas Surely he knew some Scandinavian that informed 
him 
> about some of the tribes in Scandinavia too.
> I note that the tribes Chali, Charudes, Chedini have the same 
prefix 
> CH as Cheruski, Chatti, Chauki whatever that means. Some question 
> marks it sets ????? 
> .
> Tacitus also mention Ingvaeones, Istvaenones an Hermiones but I 
think 
> that was categories of ritual league Tacitus 22
> The Suebi were a great league of 54 tribes (Orosius). which covered 
> the former Celtic area around Halstatt and La Tene. The culture in 
> Halstatt began in about 800 BC and the salt trade was an important 
> part in the labour of about 800 people. "Celtic fields" are 
> significant elements in that culture too and they are found from 
> Vistula, Poland to Scotland and in north to the plains in 
Scandinavia.
> Once they were a threat to the Romans in Raetia. At least the noble 
> used to make a "Suebian knot" in their hair. We find that pictured 
on 
> at least one golden brakteat in Scandinavia. Such things put ants 
in 
> the hair and give new questions. 
> .
> Naharnavalian priests wore long shirt and were together with two 
> Alces. Their rituals were hold in the woods. Still in the cellar of 
a 
> church at Rügen we find that priest with a horn engraved in a 
stone. 
> We find him also on one of the horns from Gallehus. Normally the 
> attribute horn should connect him to the moon and fertility. Again 
> more new questions.
> Observe no specific German tribe ever existed. German means 
"brother" 
> and is just a category and they could become "foederati" and work 
and 
> own property in the Roman Empire. To be a citizen fast you needed a 
> billion bugs.
> Cheers
> catshaman
> 
>  
> --- In gothic-l at egroups.com, dirk at s... wrote:
> > Bertil,
> > 
> > it is possible that a small Langobardic group maybe a royal clan 
> came 
> > to the main Langobardic settlement area in North Germany from 
> > Scandinavia. The archaelogical evidence cannot prove or disprove
> > this.  However, it must be borne in mind that the Langobard's 
> > historical account was influenced by that of the Ostrogoth who 
they 
> > may have seen as examples. The Langobardic history was written 
some 
> > 700 to 800 years after the supposed migration from Scadanan. 
> Stories

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