[gothic-l] The Scandinavian Origin of the Goths and Other Germanic Peoples

[Bertil Häggman]

Dirk,

A detailed review of all sources concerning
the Goths, both historical, archaelogical and
linguistic, supports a Scandinavian migration.
Some late authors, like Nordgren, nelieve there
might have been three waves of migration: one early
from Gotland, the main migration around BC and
a third migration of the Gepids.

An appearance of Germanic immigrants in
Scandinavia from 1000 to 700 BC does not,
as far as I see, exclude the migrations of Goths
from Gotland and Götaland within the timeframe
given.

The genetic evidence seems interesting. Any
sources? Last year a unique experiment started
in cooperation between Italian and Jutlandic
Danish academic institutions to test Cimbrians
in Itay and Himmerland inhabitants on Jutland
to compare their DNA. Other such genetic
research is of interest.

Gothically

Bertil



The difference is that Anthony Appleyard's statement could imply (or 
leaves open) the possibility of (Indo/Proto etc-) Germanic settlement 
of Scandinavia (possibly from the Russian steppe via Karelia and 
Finland) at a much earlier time. This allows for the possibility of
an 
emergence of  'the Germanic culture' in Scandinavia from where they 
would have expanded to the continent. 

My statement precludes such a scenario and  supports theories which 
state that Germanic people expanded to Scandinavia at a much later 
date (say between 1000-700BC)from what is now central Germany. There 
seems to be overwhelming archaelogical, linguistic, and apparently 
also genetic evidence to support this view. 

PS: It took me some time to answer to Anthony Appelyard's statement, 
so you may not have been aware of the preceding exchange.

Dirk


--- In gothic-l at egroups.com, Bertil Häggman <mvk575b at t...> wrote:
> Dirk,
> 
> Really cannot see any difference between the two statements.
> 
> Gothically
> 
> Bertil
> 
> > Thinking and reading about your statement below, I find that it
is 
not 
> > very likely that 
> > 
> > "a branch of the speakers of the Common Indo-European 
> > language, 
> > > spreading gradually from their original home on the steppes of 
south 
> > Russia, 
> > > invaded the south of Scandinavia and became its ruling class, 
very 
> > many 
> > > centuries BC"
> > 
> > I read a few papers and I think that the currently accepted
wisdom 
is 
> > that Proto-Germanic people came to Scandinavia via the Jutland 
route 
> > about 700 BC, until than a Finnic/Baltic culture with a 
Finnic/Baltic 
> > language occupied the Scandinavian peninsula proper. These people 
were 
> > gradually driven to the far north and east by the Germanic 
settlers. 
> > Over the next centuries these settlers developed into various 
tribes 
> > probably including the Goths, who than around 100 BC left 
Scandinavia 
> > to settle at the mounth of the Vistula.
> > 
> > Dirk
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In gothic-l at egroups.com, "Anthony Appleyard" <MCLSSAA2 at f...> 
> > wrote:
> > > From: dirk at s... wrote:-
> > > > ... but it is more likely that proto-Germans moved to 
> > > > Scandinavia (before Gothic and other tribal identities were 
> > formed). ...
> > > 
> > > Or the speakers of the ancestor of the Common Germanic language 
did 
> > so. 
> > > Likeliest, a branch of the speakers of the Common Indo-European 
> > language, 
> > > spreading gradually from their original home on the steppes of 
south 
> > Russia, 
> > > invaded the south of Scandinavia and became its ruling class, 
very 
> > many 
> > > centuries BC. Over a few centuries they imposed their language 
and 
> > suppressed 
> > > whatever language the natives spoke before.
> > > 
> > > Those natives would themselves have had to come in from
outside, 
a 
> > long time 
> > > before that, when or after the first Homo sapiens came to the 
area. 
> > The 
> > > characteristic features of Nordic peoples would have evolved in 
the 
> > area:-
> > >   I saw an experiment on TV once that showed that blue eyes see 
> > better in 
> > > faint light and brown eyes see better in glare.
> > >   People need Vitamin D to avoid rickets. The body can make its 
own, 
> > but one 
> > > stage needs ultraviolet light. Thus the skin had to evolve as 
pale 
> > as possible 
> > > to let enough sun through it despite clouds and clothes and
dull 
> > weather.
> > > In hotter sunnier lands further south, such things did not keep 
the 
> > sun off 
> > > the skin so much.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > You are a member of the Gothic-L list.  To unsubscribe, send a 
blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe at egroups.com>.
> > Homepage: http://www.stormloader.com/carver/gothicl/index.html
> > 
> >



You are a member of the Gothic-L list.  To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe at egroups.com>.
Homepage: http://www.stormloader.com/carver/gothicl/index.html




-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
eGroups eLerts
It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free!
http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/8/_/3398/_/972655248/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->

You are a member of the Gothic-L list.  To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe at egroups.com>.
Homepage: http://www.stormloader.com/carver/gothicl/index.html