[gothic-l] Re: Gothic influence on Baltic Prussians

[Håkan]

--- In gothic-l at y..., dirk at s... wrote:
> --- In gothic-l at y..., "Håkan" <hakan36 at s...> wrote:
> > --- In gothic-l at y..., dirk at s... wrote:
> > > 
> > > We had a short discussion about a possible Gothic influence on 
the 
> > > later Prussians (Prussen, a Baltic people) before. However, I 
have 
> > now 
> > > received some Russian material about the recently rediscovered 
> > Prussia 
> > > Collection in Kaliningrad/Koenigsberg, which contained among 
> others 
> > > early Prussian and Gothic artefacts and the text suggests a 
> certain 
> > > continuity between the Vistula Gothic Willenberg/Wielbark 
culture, 
> > the 
> > > so called Masovia- Germanic culture of the 6th/7th century and 
the 
> > > early Prussian culture. Interestingly, Wolfram suggests in his 
> book 
> > > 'The Goths', that parts of the Baltic Galindi joined the Goths, 
> > which 
> > > is also attested by Gothic personal names like Galindai. 
> > > 
> > > The Galindi were a Prussian subtribe like the Samen (not to be 
> > > confused with the Scandinavian Saami) and Kuren. The Galindi 
> > settled 
> > > in the Masovia (Masuren) region were also Willenberg/Wilbark is 
> > > situated and which may provide the link between the Gothic and 
the 
> > > Prussian culture. From the 12th century the Prussians were 
> absorbed 
> > > into a population of German settlers, but the name Galinden 
> > remained 
> > > in use until the 18th century.
> > > 
> > > cheers
> > > Dirk
> > > 
> > > For the Masovia-Germanic culture see:
> > > V. I. Kulakov, "Mogil'niki zapadnoi chasti Mazurskogo poozer'ia 
> > > konca  V-nachala VIII vv. " _Barbaricum_ 1 (1989),148-276; 
> > >                   
> > >             -- "Gräber pruzzischer Stammesführer aus Warnikam," 
> > > Eurasia Antiqua_ 3 (1990), 595-628].
> > 
> > Hi Dirk!
> > I just remember that I had a discussion with a guy on dejanews.com
> > (not sure if that´s the adress now). He mentioned the jatvingians 
> and 
> > also that he thought that vandals came from the baltic verb 
vendit, 
> > which meant "watch, guard". He also had a theory that the goths 
were 
> > followed by baltic people. It´s possible that he had read 
Wolfram. 
> > Hi´s and yours ideas seams very similar.  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Håkan Liljeberg
> 
> Hi Haakan,
> 
> thanks for the information. I guess that would be a question for 
> linguists. According to Pohl (Die Germanen) many linguists seem 
> to regard Baltic as close or closest relative to Germanic so, at 
least 
> a common root of the Baltic word 'vendit' and the Vandal name 
cannot 
> be ruled out.
> 
>  Some contact and influence of Gutones (the forefathers of the 
Goths) 
> and Baltic people seems likely and the indication about the 
Prussian 
> Galindi, offered by Wolfram seem to support the possibility of a 
> cultural influence from the Gutones/Goths via the Masovia-Germanic 
> culture of the 6th-8th century to the Baltic Prussians. It would 
> perhaps be interesting to see whether the old-Prussian language 
which 
> died out in the 17th century (religious texts were still translated 
> into this language in the 16th century) contains east Germanic 
> borrowings (or perhaps vice versa).

Hi Dirk!
It was interesting to hear that some baltic people were under 
cultural influence from goths and the Masovia-Germanic culture.
In some you say it´s possible that they have borrowed words from the 
gothic language ackording to Wolfram. It reminds me that there is 
some words in latvian that could be interesting seen from this 
perspective. One latvian word is 'staigat', which means "go, travel". 
If I am not mistaken the gothic word for "go, travel for a shorter 
distance is 'staigan'. I wouldn´t be surprised if there are other 
words. But knowing about gotlandic settlements in Grobin at the 
westcoast in Kurland in the 700th c, it´s possible that some words 
have come this way. So what do you think about all this?

Greetings from



Håkan Liljeberg


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