[gothic-l] Re: Names of Heruls-Goffart-J.Svennung-midnight sun-

[troels_brandt]

Dirk,

--- In gothic-l at y..., "faltin2001" <dirk at s...> wrote:
> --- In gothic-l at y..., "troels_brandt" <trbrandt at p...> wrote:

> Actually, it was you who suggested constantly that Procopius'
> desicription of the midnight sun was information exclusive to
> him

I said the midnightsun was known, but his description did not appear
just to be a quote of an earlier geographer.

> >
> > Normally you explain all signs of international connections in
> > Scandinavia with trade connections. Above you indirectly accept,
> that
> > if Procopius was so well-informed as he appears, he most likely
met
> > some of the Heruls he told had returned from a place next to the
> > Gautoi - as "direct contact was very rare". This is confirmed by
his
> > pluralis - he did not talk to a merchant.
>
>
> He does not say a word about his source. There is no indication
that
> he spoke to Heruls from Scandinavia. Firstly, given his low opinion
of
> Heruls, he as a member of the Roman senatorial elite would likely
not
> want to be seen mingling with barbarians like Heruls. Secondly,
since
> he focused quite a lot on Heruls he might have mentioned them by
their
>  tribal name if he had spoken to them.


Your conclusion should be exactly opposite. As he wrote in a chapter
about Heruls who returned from Scandinavia, he should more likely
mention the tribal name of the returning people being questioned if
they were not Heruls, than if they were Heruls.

By the way Heruls like Suartuas were high ranking Roman generals, and
the Roman General of the forces in Illyricum was son-in-law of the
Herul Philemuth. As a secretary of Bellisarius Procopius had to
mingle with Heruls even if he did not like it - and he was too
curious to keep away.


> > > .........
> > > Cameron states the 'burning alive' bit is not believable, and
> > > the whole practice is likely an ethnographic cliche.
> >
> > I hope for Cameron that this argument is your own.
>
> No it is directly from Prof. Cameron, as you will know since you
> indicated that you read the book.

My source was Procopius' own text in Dewing's translation. I did not
have Cameron's book at hand, but neither did I remember having read
your version, and I have in your later mail to Einar noticed that
your argumentation has fallen into pieces with your remark:

> If I said 'burning alive' earlier, I was likely wrong.

With this latest example of your firm statements about the Heruls and
Scandinavia causing "my behavior" I will leave this thread. As I have
earlier indicated, my reaction does not cover the valuable new links
and information about Saxons, coins and German archaeology you
provide us with - especially at Germanic List - which I highly
appreciate.

Troels


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