[gothic-l] Re: The Eruli and the Stentoften Rune Inscription

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at y..., Tore Gannholm <tore.gannholm at s...> wrote:
> >--- In gothic-l at y..., Tore Gannholm <tore.gannholm at s...> wrote:
> >> Bertil,
> >> I can buy that.
> >> What matters most to me is that we place various occasions in the
> >correct
> >> century.
> >> I want to compare apples with apples not with anything else.
> >>
> >> I got furious when the tourist guides in Visby talked about the
> >fantastic
> >> buildings, build by the German Hanse, dated to the 13th century.
> >> The German Hanse was only founded in 1358. Almost all anchient
> >buildings in
> >> Visby are built before the German Hanse. As far as I understand
> >most of the
> >> tourist  guides know better now.
> >> Tore
> >
> >
> >Tore,
> >
> >I am afraid this is completely wrong. The origin of the Hanse goes
> >back to the 11th century when certain privileges were awarded to
> >merchants of Cologne, Tiel and Bremen. In 1161, the 'Genossenschaft
> >der Gotlandfahrer' (the union of the seafarers to Gotland)is 
founded.
> >In about 1180 the Hanse-contor of Novgorod is opened. In 1266/67 
the
> >Hanse is mentioned in a document. I don't know were you got your 
date
> >1358 from, but it is completely wrong as founding date of the 
Hanse.
> >By 1350 the Hanse had already reached its height of power. About 
half
> >of the population of Visby were Germans at that time.
> >
> >
> >Have a look at this chronicle of the hanse:
> >
> >http://hanza.gdansk.gda.pl/kronika_n.html
> >
> >
> >Sorry this is certainly off-list, but required a correction.
> >
> >cheers,
> >Dirk
> 
> Sorry Dirk,
> 
> Now you are out on deep water.
> The Hanseatic league was formed in 1358 and had its zenit in 1370. 
The 15th
> century is  the time for the Deutsche Hanse.
> 
> See:
> http://gotland.luma.com/Hanse.html
> 
> 
> You are referring to the old German phantasies where they projected 
back
> the greatness of Lübeck in the 15th century. A comparison is to 
talk about
> the European Union in the 19th and first half of the 20th century.
> 
> Three years ago I participated in  a seminar in Lübeck about the 
Deutsche
> Hanse where also the authors of "Die Hanse Lebenswirklichkeit und 
Mythos",
> Volker Henn and Rainer Postel participated.
> This matter was discussed and there is no question. There is no 
Hanseatic
> league before 1358.
> It was problem in Brügge that forced Lübeck to seek help from other 
trading
> cities mainly Visby.
> This resulted in the formation of the Hanseatic League in what we 
later
> call "die zweite Hansetag" in 1358.
> 
> The peace treaty of Artlenburg between Heinrich der Löwe 
representing
> Sachsen and Liknatte representing the repuplic of Gotland was in 
1161.
> From that time traders from Sachsen were allowed to sail under 
Gotlandic
> flag and have an office in Visby.
> The Gotlanders at the same time got confirmed their old privileges 
in
> Sachsen. Gotland and Visby were the leading trade nation in the 
Baltic.
> 
> If you want more information we can move to Germanic
> 
> As far as I understand "Hanse" is an old Gothic word.
> 
> Tore

Tore,

there is no way that this is correct. Every mainstream history book 
gives **1266** as the documented 'founding' date of the Hanse, when 
it is first mentioned in a document. It existed however much earlier. 
Hamburg for example joint in 1230. A Hanse contor at 
Naugarden/Nowgorod was opened in the 1180s. From 1356, we have a 
document that lists Hanseatic towns, but this is not the founding 
date. In your interpretation you want to make it sound as if Visby 
was the founder and most important city of the Hanse, which is not 
correct. Also, Hanse is not a specific Gothic word, but a Germanic 
word meaning 'union' or 'group'. 

This is mainly off-topic and I suggest we move to private e-mail 
exchange, because it would also be mis-placed at the Germanic list.

Dirk








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