[gothic-l] Re: The Eruli and the Stentoften Rune Inscription

[Tore Gannholm]

>>
>> Sorry Dirk,
>>
>> Now you are out on deep water.
>> The Hanseatic league was formed in 1358 and had its zenit in 1370.
>The 15th
>> century is  the time for the Deutsche Hanse.
>>
>> See:
>> http://gotland.luma.com/Hanse.html
>>
>>
>> You are referring to the old German phantasies where they projected
>back
>> the greatness of Lübeck in the 15th century. A comparison is to
>talk about
>> the European Union in the 19th and first half of the 20th century.
>>
>> Three years ago I participated in  a seminar in Lübeck about the
>Deutsche
>> Hanse where also the authors of "Die Hanse Lebenswirklichkeit und
>Mythos",
>> Volker Henn and Rainer Postel participated.
>> This matter was discussed and there is no question. There is no
>Hanseatic
>> league before 1358.
>> It was problem in Brügge that forced Lübeck to seek help from other
>trading
>> cities mainly Visby.
>> This resulted in the formation of the Hanseatic League in what we
>later
>> call "die zweite Hansetag" in 1358.
>>
>> The peace treaty of Artlenburg between Heinrich der Löwe
>representing
>> Sachsen and Liknatte representing the repuplic of Gotland was in
>1161.
>> From that time traders from Sachsen were allowed to sail under
>Gotlandic
>> flag and have an office in Visby.
>> The Gotlanders at the same time got confirmed their old privileges
>in
>> Sachsen. Gotland and Visby were the leading trade nation in the
>Baltic.
>>
>> If you want more information we can move to Germanic
>>
>> As far as I understand "Hanse" is an old Gothic word.
>>
>> Tore
>
>Tore,
>
>there is no way that this is correct. Every mainstream history book
>gives **1266** as the documented 'founding' date of the Hanse, when
>it is first mentioned in a document. It existed however much earlier.
>Hamburg for example joint in 1230. A Hanse contor at
>Naugarden/Nowgorod was opened in the 1180s. From 1356, we have a
>document that lists Hanseatic towns, but this is not the founding
>date. In your interpretation you want to make it sound as if Visby
>was the founder and most important city of the Hanse, which is not
>correct. Also, Hanse is not a specific Gothic word, but a Germanic
>word meaning 'union' or 'group'.
>
>This is mainly off-topic and I suggest we move to private e-mail
>exchange, because it would also be mis-placed at the Germanic list.
>
>Dirk
>

Dirk,
If I can't convince you what was handled at the Symposium "die Deutsche
Hanse" I don't know what to do.
If something has been published and it turns out to be wishful thinking it
is very hard to kill it. The authors of one book copies from the other.

The word Hanse in the meaning union , group was used by Henrik III when he
allowed Hamburg to establish themselves in London. They were allowed to
form their own Hanse on the English market in 1266. When Köln got that
right in 1157 it was called  "Gildhalle".

In the Baltic the word Hanse is not known until after the creation of the
Hanseatic League in 1358.

The merchants formed "gilda communis" in the various towns. From time to
time there were co-operation between constallations of towns.

For example the Germans in Visby made in 1280 a 10 year agreement with
Lübeck for common protection of trade on the Baltic. In 1282 Riga joined
this pact for the remaining 8 years.

Lübeck and Hamburg had 1241 made a pact to secure the trade route through
Holstein and Flandern.

There was one pact "civitates Slavie" and another "civitates maritimae".

Civitates Slavie became more stable through Rostocker Landfrieden 1283
which was against the Brandenburger Ostsee policies. Rostocker Landfrieden
was for 10 years. In 1283 the Norwegian gouvernment confiscated German
merchandise in Bergen. In 1284 these towns that belonged to the
abovementioned association did institute a provision blockade against
Norway. Bremen broke that blockade and was expelled. An agreement was
reached in 1285. Lübeck saw its chance and tried to make the Baltic a
closed sea.
 Next try to organise German merchants was in 1347 where those merchants
that visited Brügge  organised those merchants into 3 drittels, Vendian,
Westphalian-Preussian, Gotland-Livland.

This organisation did not work very well and in 1356 a representation of
members of the magistrate's court from those towns whose merchants were
represented in Brügge assembled there to help them solve the problem. It
did not work out and the trading place in Brügge was moved to Dordrecht.

This is normally called the first "Hansetag".

In 1358 town representives from the above mentioned towns assembled in
Lübeck and decisions were made to formalize an association.
That is the Hanseatic league that now sees the light.

As regards history books, one must take them with caution. Everything that
is written is not true.

In Svensk Uppslagsbok 1955 I quote: "On a Hansetag in Köln (1370)
predecessors for the Preussian, Vendian and Dutch Hanseatic towns decided
on war against Denmark and their allies in order to subdue its ambitions to
become the dominating sea power in the Baltic. About a decade earlier had
the wording " Die Deutsche Hanse" began to be used.
Tore







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