[gothic-l] Re: Ostrogoths in Italy, Britain or China (or on the moon?)

[Tore Gannholm]

>
>Hello Troels,
>
>
>I just asked Tore the same question about the southern Denmark/North
>Germany origin of the Heruls. Does Jordanes ever mention names like
>'Scania' or 'Sealand' in his works?
>I thought he only spoke of this uninhabitable place with cave-dwelling
>carnivors, laking honey and sunlight called 'Scandza'.
>
>I thought most authors readily translate this Scandza into Scandinavia
>regardless of the fact that authors like Fredegar (640sAD) places his
>'Scatanavia' between the Danube and the Ocean' in continental Europe
>and the codis gothanis places its Scatanav (perhaps the later
>Skadanaw) at the Elbe river. But were does Jordanes speak of 'Sealand'
>or Scania?
>
>cheers
>Dirk


Dirk,
As there are questions about what Jordanes wrote I quote below the part in
Mierows translation that is relevant. Note that he has a clear description
of Scandza as the island opposite the mouth of the river Vistula. Have a
look at a map of the Baltic and you will see which big island is located
there.

cheers Tore

"Jordanes
The Origin and Deeds of the Goths
in English version
Part of a Thesis
Presented to the Faculty of Princeton University
for the degree of
Doctor of Philosophy
By Charles C. Mierow
Princeton
1908


Sid 3
And at the farthest bound of its western expanse it has another island
named Thule, of which the Mantuan bard makes mention:

"And Farthest Thule shall serve thee."

The same mighty sea has also in its arctic region, that is in the north, a
great island named  Scandza, from which my tale (by God's grace) shall take
its beginning. For the race whose origin you ask to know burst forth like a
swarm of bees from the midst of this island and came into the land of
Europe. But how or in what wise we shall explain hereafter, if it be the
Lord's will.
Š
s 5
III  Let us now return to the site of the island of Scandza, which we left
above. Claudius Ptolemaeus, an excellent describer of the world, has made
mention of it in the second book of his work, saying: "There is a great
island situated in the surge of the northern Ocean, Scandza by name, in the
shape of a juniper leaf with bulging sides that taper down to a point at a
long end." Pomponius Mela also makes mention of it as situated in the Codan
Gulf of the sea, with Ocean lapping its shores. This island lies in front
of the river Vistula, which rises in the Sarmatian mountains and flows
through its triple mouth into the northern Ocean in sight of Scandza,
separating Germany and Scythia. The island has in its eastern part a vast
lake in the bosom of the earth, whence the Vagus river springs from the
bowels of the earth and flows surging into the Ocean. And on the west it is
surrounded by an immense sea. On the north it is bounded by the same vast
unnavigable Ocean, from which by means of a sort of projecting arm of land
a bay is cut off and forms the German Sea. Here also there are said to be
many small islands scattered round about. If wolves cross over to these
islands when the sea is frozen by reason of great cold, they are said to
lose their sight. Thus the land is not only inhospitable to men but cruel
even to wild beasts.


s 6
Now in the island of Scandza, whereof I speak, there dwell many and divers
nations, though Ptolemaeus mentions the names of but seven of them.

s 7
(The United Goths)
IV Now from this island of Scandza, as from a hive of races or a womb of
nations, the Goths are said to have come forth long ago under their king,
Berig by name. As soon as they disembarked from their ships and set foot on
the land, they straightway gave their name to the place. And even to-day it
is said to be called Gothiscandza. Soon they moved from here to the abodes
of the Ulmerugi, who then dwelt on the shores of Ocean, where they pitched
camp, joined battle with them and drove them from their homes. Then they
subdued their neighbors, the Vandals, and thus added to their victories.
But when the number of the people increased greatly and Filimer, son of
Gadaric, reigned as king - about the fifth since Berig - he decided that
the army of the Goths with their families should move from that region. In
search of suitable homes and pleasant places they came to the land of
Scythia, called Oium in that tongue"

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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