[gothic-l] Normandy and the Visigoths

[Frank Kermes]

> >  I notice that none of these suggestions involve any Gothic
> > leadership,
> > which in a way is surprising, given the fact that this southern
> > outpost of Frisian territory was surrounded by Franks but, most of
> > all, no farther away than Normandy were the Visigoths in their
> > kingdom (or was it Svagrius?).

Mainly because Gregory (that _is_ who I meant by Greg, BTW ;)--I get silly
sometimes when all I do is read!) said Hygelac (Chocillaicus) was a _Dane_,
and Gregory clearly knew who the Visigoths and Ostrogoths were, having used
those names throughout his history.

The other possibilities for his usage were, I think, already touched upon
when Matt mentioned Toefler and Hrothulf = Hrolf Kraki, and Troels I think,
too.

Niels Lukman was the first scholar I read (though not the first to write, I
don't think) who related the Scyldingas of Beowulf to the Heruls basically
in the territory of Dacia--Dacians becoming confused with Danes, and
resulting in the "importation" of these Heruli into Danish legend.

So could it have been at all possible that Chocillaicus and his "Danes" were
re-migrating Heruli?  I hesitate to strongly endorse that opinion, as weak
as it is, but <shrug.>

Although: Wulfgar, Hrothgar's coastguard is refered to as "Wendla leod" in
line 348, which could be "prince of the Vendels" (Scandinavian/N Germanic)
or "Vandals," E. Germanic, Hrothgar mentions _somewhere_ that he hired
Gepidic mercenaries, though I can't remember where.

Basically, I think (as has already been mentioned) that Beowulf is a
collection of various threads of oral tradition--Roduulf the Heruli
cheiftain killed by Langobards is one thread that was adopted into Danish
legend, and Hygelac may have been another thread, with little connection to
the historical Dane of Gregory of Tours, much like the Dietrich von Bern's
connections with the history Theoderic--and Hygelac's necklace of the
Brosings was stolen from Eormenric by Hama, possibly _not_ the Ermanareiks
of history, but (already) the legendary Ermenerich and Heime of the Dietrich
cycle.

To matters Gothic, someone mentioned Eadgils as equivalent to an Attila;
(and I _know_ that it's not necessarily the Hun!) Attila is a Gothic
diminuitive, with corresponding ON Atli and MHG Etzel; but while Eadgils
corresponds phonologicaly (kind of), it's still a duotheme, Ead-, plus
-gils, which in other Germanic languages (cf. Frankish names) is -gisl.  And
Eadgils corresponds to the Yngling Adhisl at the same time the language
contain "Atli."  It's not inconceivable that the language have two
corresponding forms of the same name, but the fact that Eadgils has a
semantic meaning (significant or not) persuades me otherwise.

Same problem I have with Lukman's idea that Healfdene/Halfdan = the Hun
Uldin.

Cheers (and sorry that it was only tangetially Gothic)
Frank
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