[gothic-l] Gapt = Capit !

[keth at ONLINE.NO]

Hi Bertil,

you wrote:
>Thank you for your view on the chapters
>in _Getica_.
>
>Noted your view that Grimm was a "genius".
Yes, and so was Isaac Newton, who died in the same century
in which Jacob Grimm was born. But that doesn't mean one can
skip over all the research done by others, perhaps
not as richly gifted, in the intervening centuries.


>Who was right or who was wrong? Can only
>present the view of Nordin. At least it is
>of later date than 1930. Was there a commentary
>in the Norwegian edition ?

Bertil, Andreas Nordin edited Jordanes'
"Getica" in a new edition that came out in 1997,
and you certainly have reason to be proud of it !
and I will not shrink from advertising the fact for you.

The truth is: (again) I very much enjoy reading books
published in Sweden; Especially if they are well done
(as this one is) It has Latin on the left page, and
a modern Swedish translation of the same on the right
page. In the back it has 40 pages of comments, ordered
by paragraph number. (the Getica has 316 paragraphs)
It also includes a map, a genealogical table and an index.
There is also a literature list (about 1.5 pages)
as well as an editor's introduction of 17 pages.
(also by Nordin)


And yet, I would not call it a _critical_ edition.
For that I miss the text critical remarks that one usually
finds in such editions. For example, it does not say that
there are other readings of the word "Gapt" than the one
Nordin has chosen to present to his readers. Also, I do
not see it as a new edition of the Latin text, but rather
as a new Swedish translation.

The comments can also easily be seen as compilations
of comments that are found in earlier editions.


>Maybe you have checked all the manuscripts?

Yes, indeed, I went through all of those! :))))
(no, I'm only kidding!)


>Lets try to list some of them:
>
>There are 12 _Getica_ manuscripts:
>
>Codex Heidelbergensis 921, 8th century
>Vaticanus Palatinus, 9th century
>Valenciennensis, 9th century
>Florentinus Laurentianus, 11th century
>Mediolanensis Ambrosianus, 11th century
>Epitome Philippsiana, 9th century
>Vaticanus Ottobotianus, 10th century
>Codex Breslaviensis Rehdigerenus, 11th century.
>Codex Cantabrigiensis, 11th century
>Codex Berolinensis, 12th century
>Codex Atrebatensis, only copy
>
>One list in the home of Mommsen in a fire.
>He ordered them in three classes.

It is of course also true that Mommsen as well as
Grimm and Mullenhoff did consider the form "Gapt"
as perhaps more reliable than "Capit". But my intention was
to put to your attention that the reading "Gapt"
is not completely secured. And also: "Capit" does make
sense to me as "Caput" = head ....

(Head of family, pater familias, progenitor of a dynasty, etc..)


Another matter is that it appears UNLIKELY to me that a scribe
would write a "p" for an "u", because the two letters are so
entirely different in their shapes.

But this is the basis for the conjecture that Gapt = Gaut.
In fact, this conjecture is not based on the text AT ALL!,

but rather on the thought that the Icelandic tradition of GAUT
must of necessity agree with the Italian tradition of Jordanes.

   And it is this which makes me sceptical.
   Agreement in the big general lines, yes,
   but agreement in details like the spelling
   of the name of the progenitor of Jordanes'
   Goths, that has to agree with the much
   later Snorri Sturlason version of the
   prehistoric progenitor of Swedes and
   Ynglings???


Dependency of Snorri upon the Getica cannot be assumed either,
since that would have meant that Snorri would ALSO have called
him "Gapt", but he does not.


Cheers,
Keth






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