[gothic-l] Gutþiuda and Goðþjóð/ and also more about GAPT.

[keth at ONLINE.NO]

Hi Anþanareiks,

>Mark:
>33.
>jah gawargjand ina dauþau jah atgiband ina þiudom
>they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the Gentiles

id est:
Marcus X: 33 where Greek text has "etnesin".

>42.
>wituþ þatei þaiei þuggkjand reikinon þiudom, gafraujinond im,

id est:
Marcus X: 42 where the Greek text has "etnon".

>Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles
>exercise lordship over them

So we see in these two examples that "þiud" is a translation
of Greek "etne", which we also recognize in the English word
"ethnic".


>Does anyone know in which text the word Gutþhiuda is contained?

I find the reference *Gut-þiuda "cal of 23 and 29 oct", which
looks like a calendar reference, but the index does not
say exactly what it refers to. Could it be some document that
lists an old calendar with various feasts?

The star in front of *Gut also indicates that it is a reconstructed
word, rather than a word found directly in any source.

(ref. Lehmann p. 163)

Golja þuk,
Keþ.


P.S.
Something more about the name GAPT follows below:

With respect to the name "Gapt" (which occurred in a Latin MS.
viz. Jordanes' Getica), I am now looking for Gothic words that
sound somewhat similar. I am assuming one can then look for Gothic
words that have a "b" where the Latin has a "p". This is, I think,
something we discussed before. Gothic "p" at the beginning of a word
 are mostly loan-words (e.g. "prophet). The other choice would be
an "f".

Thus we have:
gabei = riches
gabigs = rich in
gafeteins = clothing
giba = a gift
giban = to give
gibands = giver

What I learn when browsing under "g" is that
Gothic words beginning wit "Ga-" are very common.
Thus the original Gothic word that Jordanes later wrote as "Gapt",
could easily belong to this class of very common Gothic words.

Also, Ga- as common prefix, could also be subtracted.
Then we must look for words similar to "pt", i.e.
"ped", "pid", "pad", "bed", "bid", "bad", "fed", "fid", "fad",
"pet", "pit", "pat", "bet", "bit",  "bat","fet", "fit", "fat",

and then attach the prefix "Ga-".
(also þ should perhaps be included in addition to "t" and "d")

In particular, it might be of interest to look for verbs
that are similar to one of these forms. That is because
with respect to the name "Gaut", it was found relevant to
look at the "Ablautreihe" of the verb *giutan (to pour).
If we could then find another Gothic verb that relates
to "Gapt" in the same way that giutan relates to Gaut,
then I feel that would constitute a satisfactory solution.
         (giuta   gaut   gutum   gutans)

For example:

          giba    gaf    gebum    gibans  (to give)

which is a nice example, I think, because it displays
a shifting between "b" and "f" which were the two sounds
we were looking for. Thus the indicative preteritum "gaf"
(I gave) is analogous to "gaut". Now if we allow for
a Latin rendering, with Jordanes, of a Gothic "f" as a
Latin "p", we shall immediately have "Gap" as the analogue
of "Gaut". How to get from "Gap" to "Gapt" I do not know
at present time.

Here is ONE possibility: In Old Norse there is the verb "gipta"
(= to marry). Now IF there was a corresponding Gothic verb
(there is none documented), could it possibly have been
strong and had an "Ablautreihe" as follows :

        gibta gaft  gebtum  gibtans  ??

IF that was possible, we should have "Gapt" as the analogue
of "Gaut", only now the verb would not be "to pour", but
"to marry".


I DO find a Gothic word *fra-gifts that is related to Old
Norse "gipta", and the Gothic word means "Verlobung"
(=engagement to be married) It occurs in Lucas 2:5
as well as in Lucas 1:27. For the etymology, Lehmann
says to look under giban = to give. That means that
there IS a mechanism that produces "gifts" from "giban".
Presumably that would give a name form "Gipt". "Gapt"
could then easily be derived from a different step
in the Ablautreihe of "giban".

Well, that is as close as I came.
I don't know exactly how it works, but then the mechanisms
that produce different nouns from verbs is not entirely clear.
In fact, it seems as if it sometimes is the participle that
produces nouns, and at other times it seems as if it is the
preteritum, as was discussed before.





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