Ptolemy describes the fjords? [gothic-l]

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

--- In gothic-l at y..., keth at o... wrote:
> Hej Tore and Dirk,
> >>I know that is not your main point, but just to add: Jordanes 
actually
> >>wrote that the Goths have migrated from the Island of Scandza some
> >>1000 years or so before our era!!
> >
> >Dirk,
> >You are quite right that Jordanes actually wrote that the Goths 
have
> >migrated from the Island of Scandza that looks like a Juniper 
leave, the
> >shape of Gotland.
> 
> 
> 
> This remark about a "juniper leaf" made me pause a bit.
> For, as you know, the Juniper has no leaves, but needles.
> It is therefore difficult to visualize the shape.
> Looking at the Getica text, I do however find that
> it says (§ 16): "~De hac etenim in secundo sui operis libro
> Claudio Ptolomeus, orbis terrae discriptor egregius,
> meminit dicens: est in Oceani arctoi salo posita insula
> magna, nomine Scandza, in modum folii cetri, lateribus pandis,
> per longum ducta concludens se."
> I think the plant name would here be contained in the
> phrase "in modum folii cetri".
> Here the spelling is odd, but it could be the "citrus"
> that is referred to here. The dictionary then says
> that this is  1) the lemon tree 2) Thuia orientalis =
> an african thuja tree. Could that be the same tree
> that is in many gardens?  In that case the mentioning of
> this tree, an evergreen with a very scented wood,
> could refere to its deeply cut leaves, and is hence a
> reference to the deep fjords of West Norway. That is
> then the most likely explanation of this passage.
> In particular because he says the "island" is very
> large and long stretched. (insula magna & lateribus pandis).
> It simply could not refer to a minor island like Gotland.
> 
> Best regards
> Keth
> 
> Msanuscript variants: cetri, citri, caedri, cedri, coedri.
> 
>

Hi Keth,

here is a translation of this part of the Getica, which also has 
'Juniper leaf' as Tore indicated:

http://www.ucalgary.ca/~vandersp/Courses/texts/jordgeti.html#united

(16) Let us now return to the site of the island of Scandza, which we 
left above. Claudius Ptolemaeus, an excellent
describer of the world, has made mention of it in the second book of 
his work, saying: "There is a great island situated in the
surge of the northern Ocean, Scandza by name, in the shape of a 
juniper leaf with bulging sides that taper down to a point at
a long end." Pomponius Mela also makes mention of it as situated in 
the Codan Gulf of the sea, with Ocean lapping its
shores. (17) This island lies in front of the river Vistula, which 
rises in the Sarmatian mountains and flows through its triple
mouth into the northern Ocean in sight of Scandza, separating Germany 
and Scythia. The island has in its eastern part a vast
lake in the bosom of the earth, whence the Vagus river springs from 
the bowels of the earth and flows surging into the Ocean.
And on the west it is surrounded by an immense sea. On the north it is 
bounded by the same vast unnavigable Ocean, from
which by means of a sort of projecting arm of land a bay is cut off 
and forms the German Sea. (18) Here also there are said
to be many small islands scattered round about. If wolves cross over 
to these islands when the sea is frozen by reason of the
great cold, they are said to lose their sight. Thus the land is not 
only inhospitable to men but cruel even to wild beasts."

cheers,

Dirk


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