[gothic-l] Gothic/Old Gutnish

[Beril Haggman]

Francisc,

Thank you for your comments on my first examples. 

1. The fact that there is "scora" on OHG of
course does not diminish the similarity
of the Gutnish "skurae" with Gothic
in this instant.

But it has equivalent in OHG scora "shovel", MHG schor "shovel", so it 
is not an exclusive Gothic-Gutnish word. Moreover, it has verbal 
derivatives in some Germanic languages: MHG schorn "to push", OE 
scorian "to throw away" (whence English "to scorn")

2. The fact that the Gutnish word exists in this
form but not in other Nordic languages still is
of interest as it shows a higher closeness than
other Nordic languages.

The Gothic word lukarn is derived from lat. lucerna "oil lamp". In 
this case we have either a common (or parallel) borowing from Latin, 
or a borrowing from Gothic to Gutnish (the variant 
Latin>Gutnish>Gothic seems unconceivable to me)

4. But Icelandic is West Germanic. What is North-East
Germanic? Do you mean East Germanic or East
Scandinavian?

And in Icelandic vör = lip = Goth. wairilo. It seems that here we have 
a common North-East Germanic (Gothic-Scandinavic) word.

Well, I think the suggestions of Professor Bugge
are interesting and is a good start. There is an
extensive material (around 2,500 words of comparative
Old Gutnish, Gothic and Old Icelandic) to go through,
and maybe additional investigation is needed. Neither did
I suggest that these six examples would be conclusive.
There is indeed no misunderstanding but on your part. If
you study my earlier contributions in the archive you can
see that Professor Bugge suggested further examinations
by Swedish linguists and mentioned these 6  examples
as an indication and possible reason for further study.

Underneath is a list of further examples by Professor Bugge.
I am afraid there is not published etymological dictionary
but there is in manuscript form the word list of 2,500
words I mentioned above.

Your last statement arouses my interest. Could you please
help me with info on these studies of Gutnish that have been
made? 

Further examples of Professor Bugge:

1. Gothic afswairban, Gutnish svaerva av =dry up (with a cloth),
sweep off.

2. Gothic rikan=pile up, heap up, Gutnish jaeul-rakae=pile of wood
preserved to last for a longer time, tillrakae=pile of wood.

3. Gothic *haggwan, Gutnish hagga but in Swedish hugga

4. Gothic hauhs, m., hauha f. hauhata n., Gurnish haur m., hau f.
and haut n.

Bugges words in the Norwegian original: "derfor framsaetter jag 
kun som et till svenske Sproggranskere rettet Spoergsmaal, at 
der paa Gotland engang har vaeret talt gotisk Sprog."

This is thus only a question from Professor Bugge. You have, 
Francisc, provided your answer. An additional answer, will, I hope, 
be provided after an examination of a large number of words.

Professor Bugge also wrote:

Concerning vowels the Gutnish forms are in several instances
closer to Gothic than any of the other Scandinavian languages.
This seems not to be a coincidence. Could it maybe not be explained 
by the development in relation to a Gothic language being spoken before
the Scandinavian.

Gothically

Bertil 



Other list members showed that lamb = sheep appears also in other 
North Germanic languages.

Your 6 examples are not convincing. And even if they would, 6 words 
(or 12, or 20) can not change the overall clearly Scandinavic 
character of Gutnish (characteristic Scandinavic phonetic innovations, 
word usage like in Scandinavian languages).

I am convinced that there is a missunderstanding here.
I am shure that Prof. Bugge does not claim that Gutnish is not 
Scandinavian, but Gothic. 

An etymological dictionary would be very useful, that compares the 
Guntish words not only with Gothic, but also with Old Norse, (Old) 
Swedish and (Old) Danish.

 Other people cleverer than me have done the work, and the result is 
that the general opinion among the specialists is that Old Gutnish is 
an East Scandinavic language, like Swedish and Danish.







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