[gothic-l] Gothic/Old Gutnish

[keth at ONLINE.NO]

Hallo Bertil,

Please remember that there are (at least) two "Professor Bugge",
Sophus and Alexander Bugge. The latter was the son of the first.
When you refer to "Professor Bugge" below, you probably do so
with the best of intentions, in order to add credibility to his
name. However, Sophus Bugge is so famous that it isn't necessary
to call him Professor. It would be just like speaking about
"Professor Einstein" or "Professor Newton" or "Professor Bohr"
etc. But nobody does that. Because these people are so famous
that they are just called by their name. "Professor Curie",
that's another one.

Best regards
Keth



>Francisc,
>
>Thank you for your comments on my first examples. 
>
>1. The fact that there is "scora" on OHG of
>course does not diminish the similarity
>of the Gutnish "skurae" with Gothic
>in this instant.
>
>But it has equivalent in OHG scora "shovel", MHG schor "shovel", so it 
>is not an exclusive Gothic-Gutnish word. Moreover, it has verbal 
>derivatives in some Germanic languages: MHG schorn "to push", OE 
>scorian "to throw away" (whence English "to scorn")
>
>2. The fact that the Gutnish word exists in this
>form but not in other Nordic languages still is
>of interest as it shows a higher closeness than
>other Nordic languages.
>
>The Gothic word lukarn is derived from lat. lucerna "oil lamp". In 
>this case we have either a common (or parallel) borowing from Latin, 
>or a borrowing from Gothic to Gutnish (the variant 
>Latin>Gutnish>Gothic seems unconceivable to me)
>
>4. But Icelandic is West Germanic. What is North-East
>Germanic? Do you mean East Germanic or East
>Scandinavian?
>
>And in Icelandic v–r = lip = Goth. wairilo. It seems that here we have 
>a common North-East Germanic (Gothic-Scandinavic) word.
>
>Well, I think the suggestions of Professor Bugge
>are interesting and is a good start. There is an
>extensive material (around 2,500 words of comparative
>Old Gutnish, Gothic and Old Icelandic) to go through,
>and maybe additional investigation is needed. Neither did
>I suggest that these six examples would be conclusive.
>There is indeed no misunderstanding but on your part. If
>you study my earlier contributions in the archive you can
>see that Professor Bugge suggested further examinations
>by Swedish linguists and mentioned these 6  examples
>as an indication and possible reason for further study.
>
>Underneath is a list of further examples by Professor Bugge.
>I am afraid there is not published etymological dictionary
>but there is in manuscript form the word list of 2,500
>words I mentioned above.
>
>Your last statement arouses my interest. Could you please
>help me with info on these studies of Gutnish that have been
>made? 
>
>Further examples of Professor Bugge:
>
>1. Gothic afswairban, Gutnish svaerva av =dry up (with a cloth),
>sweep off.
>
>2. Gothic rikan=pile up, heap up, Gutnish jaeul-rakae=pile of wood
>preserved to last for a longer time, tillrakae=pile of wood.
>
>3. Gothic *haggwan, Gutnish hagga but in Swedish hugga
>
>4. Gothic hauhs, m., hauha f. hauhata n., Gurnish haur m., hau f.
>and haut n.
>
>Bugges words in the Norwegian original: "derfor framsaetter jag 
>kun som et till svenske Sproggranskere rettet Spoergsmaal, at 
>der paa Gotland engang har vaeret talt gotisk Sprog."
>
>This is thus only a question from Professor Bugge. You have, 
>Francisc, provided your answer. An additional answer, will, I hope, 
>be provided after an examination of a large number of words.
>
>Professor Bugge also wrote:
>
>Concerning vowels the Gutnish forms are in several instances
>closer to Gothic than any of the other Scandinavian languages.
>This seems not to be a coincidence. Could it maybe not be explained 
>by the development in relation to a Gothic language being spoken before
>the Scandinavian.
>
>Gothically
>
>Bertil 
>
>
>
>Other list members showed that lamb = sheep appears also in other 
>North Germanic languages.
>
>Your 6 examples are not convincing. And even if they would, 6 words 
>(or 12, or 20) can not change the overall clearly Scandinavic 
>character of Gutnish (characteristic Scandinavic phonetic innovations, 
>word usage like in Scandinavian languages).
>
>I am convinced that there is a missunderstanding here.
>I am shure that Prof. Bugge does not claim that Gutnish is not 
>Scandinavian, but Gothic. 
>
>An etymological dictionary would be very useful, that compares the 
>Guntish words not only with Gothic, but also with Old Norse, (Old) 
>Swedish and (Old) Danish.
>
> Other people cleverer than me have done the work, and the result is 
>that the general opinion among the specialists is that Old Gutnish is 
>an East Scandinavic language, like Swedish and Danish.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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