[gothic-l] Re: Possible Gothic Origin - Cultic, Linguistic and Historical References

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

--- In gothic-l at y..., keth at o... wrote:
> Dear Bertil,
>
> Below I will try to provide you with some good counter-
> arguments, something a theory always is in need of,
> since "truth" is seldom forced through lack of alternatives.
> I therefore hope the following "food" will serve to
> quicken and animate your theory:
>
>
> You wrote:
> >see for instance Carlo Alberti Mastrelli, I Goti, 1994
>
> >elogically there are incineration burials in Oester-
> >and Vaestergoetland that were numerous in the second
> >and first centuries BC and suddenly became rare after
> >about 50 BC. That is suggesting the migration of a significant
> >portion of the previous population.
>
> Couldn't it simply mean a change in burial customs?
> They might still have burnt the dead, but maybe they
> put the ashes on small boats, and let them sail away
> (like Scylf) etc.. There could be a number of explanations.
> Maybe even a plague so that the population was much
> reduced. Poeverty, loss of their slaves, etc could have caused
> them to stop building mounds etc etc..
> And so I don't see a link between a decrease in a type of grave
> and emigration. Also, it tells you nothing about an emigration
> in a particular direction. Maybe the herring changed its pattern
> of migration, and so they had no more food there.(this has happened
> in historic times too) They could also have gone West, into
> Norway, because there was better conditions there. This too
> has happened in historic times. (many people from Finnland
> settled in NorwaY) they could also have gone North, a process
> that can be historically documented. For example the
> Migration Age expansion Northward along the Norwegian coast
> (with ships, a thousand miles to sail maybe: it was no barrier)
> (the North was a good place to stay in some periods)


Hi Keth,

above you have listed a lot of very good arguments that scholars like
Hachmann have analysed. Hachmann (Die Goten und Skandinavien) provides
examples where the change of burial custom can mimick a decline in
population. Hachmann also described a large scale internal, in-land
and north-ward mirgration in Scandinavia in the centuries BC.

(snip)


> In summary: the only reason we hear about Southen migrations,
> is because in the South there were men who could write.
>
> I'll give an example. (a "Gedanken" experiment - an oh so
> typical thing in scientific thinking)
>
> A man lives South of an island. On the island are many birds.
> The man sets up his nets where he lives, that is south of
> the island. And then he begins to catch birds. He then asks
> himself the question: "Why is it that all the birds I catch
> are coming from the North?"
>
>  |
>  |
>  |
>  |
>  |
> \|/
>  v
> (answwer: because he is sitting South of the island)
>


Good example; and to continue your Gedankenexperiment the man in the
South of the island may start to look for reasons why soooo many birds
are coming from the North; and soon he will postulate that there must
be an area in the north of the island which is inhabited by very
very fertile birds who lay lots of eggs. And he may ask: "why is it
that all those birds are coming to the south?" And he will think:
"Clearly, the climate up there is very very grim and because there are
soooo many birds, there cannot be enough living space for all of them
in the north, that's why they keep coming to the south". (I would have
liked to put the last sentences in Latin, but I guess the analogy with
the Scandza topos is clear enough):-)

cheers,
Dirk



------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Small business owners...
Tell us what you think!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/wWMplB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

You are a member of the Gothic-L list.  To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe at egroups.com>.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/