[gothic-l] Re: Reidgotaland

[keth at ONLINE.NO]

Hello Anders and Troels !
You wrote:
>Gotland/Reidgotaland is ----
>> It seem like it is where Varva is or on the way there  and i think
>it
>> is Varva in Ukraine since it is east of Poland
>
>> However, I see in the icelandic text that it is called Vorva ( with
>a
>> nasal o?), but maybe it makes little difference.

If it is a hooked "o", then "Varva" is just fine, because
the second "v" may have been like an "u" which would
produce the "u-umlauted a" or "hooked-o".

Did you say that "Varva" was a real place in Ukraine?
Reading the Ynglingasaga makes me a bit sceptical, though, because
in the story about "Dag" there, the etext starts out buy saying
"Reidgotaland", but a few lines further down it calls the land
simply "Gotland".



>>
>> Regards
>> Anders
>
>Fine - then I only have to agree with you, that this is a name they
>used sometimes in the second part of the first millenium and up to
>1200. We can't be sure that the meaning of the name originally
>was "hreid"="nest", as this might be a misunderstanding connected to
>something they believed at a later stage - just like both of you
>proposed last night.
>
>But how do you then interprete the remark at the Roekstone about some
>men, who 9 generations ago died among the Hreidgoths? Did these men
>go to Vistula to fight against the Hreidgoths or took this battle
>place in Scandinavia? Or did I misunderstand the translation in
>Keth's letter some days ago, when Keth also mentioned Heruls?

The "heruls" was just something I mentioned to approximate the time
at which the battle took place. If the reading of the Rök text
is correct here, then I do not think the persons who comissioned
the stone would have mentioned a battle 9 generations ago, if they
themselves did not believe there was such a battle.

Around 500 A.D. when the Goths were defeated and the Langobards
took over Italy, there must have been a lot of commotion in
continental Europe. There must also have been many battles. Some
that we know about, and others that we perhaps do not know about.
In the back of my mind is the Bråvalla battle. But I don't know
enough about it, and it might therefore easily be nothing but a
somewhat poor guess. Nevertheless, until I hear the good arguments,
I'd like to keep it in mind. Without much hope of resolution
really, because I believe these questions have been much researched
earlier. But it is always nice to be able to form ones own opinions
too.

I'd also like to keep up my proposal that "Hreið" is a distorted
form of "Greut". (Earlier I proposed "Reudingi" from Tacitus' book.
But that has no initial "h" and I therefore think that one is out.)
But regarding "Greut" I should still like to hear the good counter
arguments. My proposal is that the distortion partly occurred when
the name was transferred between different ethnic groups, for
example in oral communication of histories and legends.

Bertil's comment that it is Ukraine, is also a good suggestion.
Partly because that is also the direction I visualized as I read
the Hervarar saga. I believe Heidrek grow up somewhere in
Northern Russia. As he leaves home to seek his fortune, it
would be natural for him to travel South through Russia.
His mother was a kind of general Scandinavian person. Daughter
Of Angantyr the berserker, and growing up in Denmark I think with
the Jarl Bjartmar. She then gets married somewhere up in Karelen
or further towards the North East. (just my impressions thus far)
It is also my assumption that the Scandinavians who used to tell
the stories that the Icelandic "fornaldr sagas" are based upon
understood the geography somewhat better than the Icelanders,
for whom the world of Eastern Europe was more distrant, than for,
say, a Swede.

Best regards
Keth


P.S. For the "Hervarar Saga ok Heidreks", read the Hauksbók variant.
It has more pages and differs somewhat from the shorter version
that one usually finds published. I have not compared the two
versions word by word, but I know they differ, and that I personally
prefer the longer version.




You are a member of the Gothic-L list.  To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe at egroups.com>. 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/