[gothic-l] Re: Reidgotaland

[keth at ONLINE.NO]

Hi Dirk,

You wrote:
>I don't have any counter-arguments to your suggestion that Hreid is
>derived from Greut-, but as I said in an earlier message, I find it
>strange though that Hreid- and Reid- seems to be a common and frequent
>component of Germanic place names, like in Hreidensis, Reidensis
>viccus, Hreidland, Reideland (all Lower Saxony), yet a rather awkward
>derivation from Greut- and others is sought. Is it inconceivable, that
>this Hreid-, Reid-, is simply derived from either Germanic 'rede, reid
>, riet etc. ' for river or from 'reet, etc.' from a certain type of
>marshland grass used for roofing?

Well, that is of course intertesting.

Btw, "greut" is supposed to be related to ON "grjót" = stones.
But your counter-argument that you find it "sought" is certainly accepted.
The reason why it occurred to me, is that IF "Reidgoths" were a real
historical group of people (Goths) with their own land, then it
would seem unlikely that we had not heard of the same group through
other (mediterranean) sources as well. Hence I looked for the name
of a known Gothic group, that sounded somewhat similar to "Hreid"
and I ended up with "Greut". I then also remembered that "G" and "H"
may actually be similar sounds in some pronounciation schemes.
(a "hard" H)

As you know, the old Germanic initial "H" was probably a "hard"
sound. e.g. "Harald" versus "Chariowaldus" (Latin form).

Your idea to seek "Reid" in another landscape feature, i.e. not
in the "stony" landscape, but rather in the softer "reeds" is also
a good idea. However, we shall still need an initial "H".

The reason for the initial "H" is that it is on the Rök-stone.
(ca. 800)

But we know that initial "H" before "r" was lost in the later
Icelanic/Old Norse dialect, in which the name "Reidgotaland"
is documented. This lack of initial "H" ca. anno 1200 then
fits in very well with the name that appears on the Rök-stone.
Hence we shall require a name with an initial "H".

If birds make nests from little branches, and that this has something
to do with the name for "reeds", then we might have a clue there.
I like that idea.

Dutch "Riet" = reeds. "Rieten dak" = a thatched roof.
Jan de Vries here give an etymology oudsaksisch "hriod",
which does indeed have an initial "h". So that is good.
Then we may now begin to speak of the theory of the "Reedgoths" :)

Best regards
keth

P.S. De Vries also quotes Old Frisian "hreid" for reeds.
(het zwaaiende)






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