[gothic-l] Re: Reidgotaland

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

--- In gothic-l at y..., keth at o... wrote:
> Hi Dirk,
> 
> You wrote:
> >I don't have any counter-arguments to your suggestion that Hreid is
> >derived from Greut-, but as I said in an earlier message, I find it
> >strange though that Hreid- and Reid- seems to be a common and 
frequent
> >component of Germanic place names, like in Hreidensis, Reidensis
> >viccus, Hreidland, Reideland (all Lower Saxony), yet a rather 
awkward
> >derivation from Greut- and others is sought. Is it inconceivable, 
that
> >this Hreid-, Reid-, is simply derived from either Germanic 'rede, 
reid
> >, riet etc. ' for river or from 'reet, etc.' from a certain type of
> >marshland grass used for roofing?
> 
> Well, that is of course intertesting.
> 
> Btw, "greut" is supposed to be related to ON "grjót" = stones.


Hi Keths, 

yes I think that is right, altough the meaning of 'Greut-' in 
Greutungi, is I think more like very small stones, i.e. sand,  as in 
low German 'Greut' (or HG 'Gries') meaning stony sand, which is 
supposed to indicate that these Goths lived in steppe as opposed to 
the Terwingi, who lived in the forest.



> But your counter-argument that you find it "sought" is certainly 
accepted.
> The reason why it occurred to me, is that IF "Reidgoths" were a real
> historical group of people (Goths) with their own land, then it
> would seem unlikely that we had not heard of the same group through
> other (mediterranean) sources as well. 

Hence I looked for the name
> of a known Gothic group, that sounded somewhat similar to "Hreid"
> and I ended up with "Greut". I then also remembered that "G" and "H"
> may actually be similar sounds in some pronounciation schemes.
> (a "hard" H)


OK, this explanation makes your argument more plausible than I 
originally thought....



> 
> As you know, the old Germanic initial "H" was probably a "hard"
> sound. e.g. "Harald" versus "Chariowaldus" (Latin form).
> 
> Your idea to seek "Reid" in another landscape feature, i.e. not
> in the "stony" landscape, but rather in the softer "reeds" is also
> a good idea. However, we shall still need an initial "H".
> 
> The reason for the initial "H" is that it is on the Rök-stone.
> (ca. 800)
> 
> But we know that initial "H" before "r" was lost in the later
> Icelanic/Old Norse dialect, in which the name "Reidgotaland"
> is documented. This lack of initial "H" ca. anno 1200 then
> fits in very well with the name that appears on the Rök-stone.
> Hence we shall require a name with an initial "H".
> 
> If birds make nests from little branches, and that this has 
something
> to do with the name for "reeds", then we might have a clue there.
> I like that idea.
> 
> Dutch "Riet" = reeds. "Rieten dak" = a thatched roof.
> Jan de Vries here give an etymology oudsaksisch "hriod",
> which does indeed have an initial "h". So that is good.
> Then we may now begin to speak of the theory of the "Reedgoths" :)
> 
> Best regards
> keth
> 
> P.S. De Vries also quotes Old Frisian "hreid" for reeds.
> (het zwaaiende)


So with Old Frisian and Old Saxon 'hreid' meaning reeds and Hreidland 
(now drowned in the Dollart between Holland and Germany) meaning 
marshy reedland, this could indicate that those Hreid-Goths were 
supposed to be the dwellers of swamps or marshes. Another example, 
were a placename was added to a tribal name was the Ulmerugi who lived 
on an island as opposed to the other Rugi on the mainland.

cheers
Dirk




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