[gothic-l] Re: Reidgotaland

[keth at ONLINE.NO]

Hi Dirk,
>
>Hence I looked for the name
>> of a known Gothic group, that sounded somewhat similar to "Hreid"
>> and I ended up with "Greut". I then also remembered that "G" and "H"
>> may actually be similar sounds in some pronounciation schemes.
>> (a "hard" H)
>
>
>OK, this explanation makes your argument more plausible than I
>originally thought....

We still need the opinion of those who has studied Germanic
phonetics. I know only little about it, except that I've seen that
initial "H" must have been hard in some cases. I do not know very well
what the value of "G" may have been. As you know, the Dutch use
a hard "G" (throat sound). Also runic Norse used "K" for "G".
And of course there IS a relationship between "H" and "K".
But at what level or time scale I do not know. (e.g. hundred vs. kentum)

>>
>> As you know, the old Germanic initial "H" was probably a "hard"
>> sound. e.g. "Harald" versus "Chariowaldus" (Latin form).

>So with Old Frisian and Old Saxon 'hreid' meaning reeds and Hreidland
>(now drowned in the Dollart between Holland and Germany) meaning
>marshy reedland, this could indicate that those Hreid-Goths were
>supposed to be the dwellers of swamps or marshes. Another example,
>were a placename was added to a tribal name was the Ulmerugi who lived
>on an island as opposed to the other Rugi on the mainland.
>

In Norway we also have "Holmrygir", which were the people who lived on
the many islands in Rogaland. (mentioned in the Heimskringla)
(there is a large and wide fjord with many islands there)


I had another idea in the connection with the "rieten goten" ;)
Maybe it also refers to the tall grass on large plains like the
Hungarian "Puszta". After all, de Vries referred to it as "het
zwaaiende". But I have not been to these steppes, and so I do
not know if the description is accurate. Yet it is easy for me
to imagine plains with tall grasses where the wind creates
"waves" (zwaaien). The "greut" as small stones (grind) sounds
awfully dry. Are there any plains like that in eastern Europe,
or is it only a philological thing?

However, if we return to the idea of "reeds", then that is of
course something that characterizes large river deltas, where
the process of transportation of fine mud by the water
has created large plains interspersed with lakes and river branches.
These are the typical areas where reeds would grow abundantly.

BTW also "Reidhavet" would then become the "reed sea"

Still, we need to, I think, return to the old PNs like "Hreiðmarr"
and try to relate them too, to the new hypothesis. Would "reed"
also be suitable as first part of a germanic PN?   I have seen
a proposal to explain "hreið" in "Hreiðmarr" as "house" or "home".
"Famous House" then. That makes more sense. That does incidentally
also remind me of an old legend told by, was Paulus Diaconus?

The story was about a royal child, that abandoned by its mother
in a fishpond, was rescued by the king Agilmund, and was called Lamisso.
This just to ponder why "reeds" might give a plausible origin
for a respected name and which opens up the possibility also
for a legendary origin of the different names. (Lama = Lehm, Schlamm)

Best regards
Keth



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