[gothic-l] Re: More on the Gothic-Slavic link

[Sigmund]

You are of course right, Andreas!

 I did a new variant of typo, typical for our times´ "copy-and-paste" way 
of writing. I was going to quote Jordanes and Adam of Bremen but pasted
a quote of the latter onto the former. Sorry for the headache, Andreas!!
The quote was Adam of Bremen's of course.

Andreas Schwarcz objected=>
> Dear Sigmund,
> Jordanes did not write anything around 1070 AD. By then he had 
> been dead for nearly half a millenium. Your whole citation of him is 
> pure invention and cannot be found either in the Romana or in the 
> Getica. Jordanes does not locate the Vandals in the Sclavinia, he 
> puts them Getica IV 25 ff. near Gothiscandza and the Ulmerugi, 
> that means near the coast of the Baltic Sea. He never uses the 
> term "Sclavinia" and does not call it a province of Germania. He 
> puts the "Venetharum natio populosa" firmly into the Scythia 
> Getica V 34 f., where he also locates the "Sclaveni a civitate 
< Novietunense et laco quo apellatur Mursiano usque ad Danastrum 
> et in boream Viscla tenus commorantur."

So let me quote the whole passage, which was from an article by
Klaus Goldmann, Staatliche Museen zu Berlin Preussiger Kulturbesitz, 
Museum für Vor-und Frühgesichte Berlin.
In an article named "The Wends or Vandals in the Early Middle Ages"
he writes (full quote):
"One of the most important historical sources for events around the end of the first millennium in northern parts of Central Europe is Adam of Bremen's chronicles of the History of the Archbishops of Hamburg-Bremen (Gesta Hammaburgensis ecclesiae pontificum) written around 1070.  There you will find the following concise comment: "Slavinia, the most extensive of all the provinces of Germania, is inhabited by the Winils, or the Vandals as they used to be known." Approximately a century after Adam penned his account, Helmold of Bosau made a similar assertion in his chronicle of the Slavonic peoples, Chronica Slavorum: "Beyond where Poland now has its frontiers, you move into the enormous territories of the Slaves known formerly as the Vandals, but now called the Wends or the Winils."

Little could I know that this was a mine field I trodded:

> This identification of Wendes with Vandals is the so-called 
> Wendland-theory proposed by Walter Steller and others, very 
> popular under modern German right-wing extremists, but never 
> acknowledged by any serious historian, linguist or archeologist. Its 
> aim is to "prove" germanic continuity from ancient to modern times 
> and to explain the slavic settlement in Poland as fictitious. 

I am probably one of the last on this planet to wantonly propagate
material from "modern German right-wing extremists"! Walter Steller
is an unknown entity to me.
Suffice that.

> It should have no place in a serious discussion and it is certainly not 
> a part of any gothic linguistic or historic debate.
> 
> Kind regards
>                       Andreas 

I cannot quite follow you here, Andreas. Vandal history, language and 
ethnography are intimately tied to the Goths. They were often at odds 
and frequently at war with each others but indeed shared some 
Gothic language, read out of Wulfila's bible and were of the arian creed 
and "from the same neighbourhood" so to speak. They were as "gothic" 
as can be without ever being called Goths. 

Sorry for the confusion,

Sigmund


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