[gothic-l] Re: More on the Gothic-Slavic link

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

--- In gothic-l at y..., "Francisc Czobor" <czobor at c...> wrote:
> --- In gothic-l at y..., "Sigmund" <sigmund at a...> wrote:
> > ...
> > Francisc, do you have anything comments on the plethora of related 
> or associated names like 
> Sclavinia/Slavonia/Vandals/Wends/Venethi/Vinniles etc? 
> > 
> > Sigmund
> 
> Hello, Sigmund,
> 
> I'm not a professional in such matters, so I will tell you what I 
have 
> read and seems to be accepted by many.
> 
> Wends/Venethi: in the early antiquity, the eastern neighbors of the 
> Germanic peoples were represented by the old Indo-European (probably 
> Illyrian) tribe of the Veneti (the name is also connected with the 
> name of the region Venetia, now Venezia in NE Italy, and the name of 
> the city of Venice). When the Veneti were later replaced/assimilated 
> by the Slavs, the old Germans transferred the name Venethi/Venedi to 
> them. Initially, it was a generic term for the Slavs (Iordanes: 
> Venethi, OHG: winid-, MHG: winde). 


Hi Fransics,

that is an interesting point. I agree, the Venethi mentioned in first 
and second century sources are too early to be regarded as Slavs and 
the transmission of the Venethi name to the later Slavs seems likely. 
the same seems to have happened on the other side of the Germania, 
where the Celtic Volcae provided the name also for later Romans, i.e. 
'Welsche', 'Walser', etc. 





Later the term was confined to 
the 
> direct Slavic neighbors of the Germans: the Lusacian Sorabs, called 
in 
> German "Wenden". The term was borrowed also by non-Germanic 
languages 
> and denominates Slavic neighbors:
> Finnish: Venäjä "Russia", venäläis "Russian"
> Hungarian: vend "Slovenian of Hungary"
> 
> Vandal: several ethymologies proposed, discussed also on this list. 
> None looks to me convincing.
> 
> Vinnili: don't know.


There was a small Celtic tribe called the Vinnili in modern Belgium, 
but any link the Germanic Vinnili could be coincidental. 


> It seems that the terms "Vandali" and "Vinnili" are not connected to 
> "Veneti", nor to each other.


Interestingly, a medieval chronicler, Helmold von Bosau (about 1160), 
who is one of the main sources of the early history of the Western 
Slavs, wrote that in modern western Poland live people who call 
themselves, Vinduli or Vinili, but who were called Vandali in ancient 
times! Helmold also mentiones Heruli as living at the Havel river, but 
beeing now also called Heveldi.  

cheers
Dirk


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