[gothic-l] Re: More on the Gothic-Slavic link

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

--- In gothic-l at y..., andreas.schwarcz at u... wrote:
> On 30 Oct 2001, at 21:00, Sigmund wrote:
>
> > Thank you Francisc,
> >
> > The nucleus of slavic expansion is believed to be the Pripjat
River
> > area in northern Ukraine on the border of Poland (to-day a short
canal
> > joins it with the Wistula) and hence close to the territories held
by
> > the Goths prior to their migration towards the Black Sea. North of
> > them were a closely related group of East Germanics, the Vandals,
of
> > whom Jordanes  wrote around 1070: "Slavinia, the most extensive of
all
> > the provinces of Germania, is inhabited by the Winils, or the
Vandals
> > as they used to be known.".
>
>
> Dear Sigmund,
> Jordanes did not write anything around 1070 AD. By then he had
> been dead for nearly half a millenium. Your whole citation of him is
> pure invention and cannot be found either in the Romana or in the
> Getica.


Hello Andreas,

Sigmund did not invent the quote, but confused the sources. He was
clearly refering to Helmold of Bosau, (although he wrote in the
1160sAD). As I mentioned in the  previous message. Helmold mentioned
the Winili or Winduli in modern western Poland. Helmold does say that
they were called Vandali in ancient times. Helmold also mentiones
Heruli living at the Havel, but states that they are somtimes also
called Heveldi.



Jordanes does not locate the Vandals in the Sclavinia, he
> puts them Getica IV 25 ff. near Gothiscandza and the Ulmerugi,
> that means near the coast of the Baltic Sea. He never uses the
> term "Sclavinia" and does not call it a province of Germania. He
> puts the "Venetharum natio populosa" firmly into the Scythia
> Getica V 34 f., where he also locates the "Sclaveni a civitate
> Novietunense et laco quo apellatur Mursiano usque ad Danastrum
> et in boream Viscla tenus commorantur."
>
> They were established on the South Baltic
> > shores, west of Prussia. I have come to believe that these are
> > identical with the Wendes, who long gave name to the Baltic Sea
(at
> > least its eastern parts) as the Vendic Sea, Mare Wendicum (Sinus
> > Wendicus for the Finnish Gulf). But 'die Wandalen' were germanics,
not
> > slavs.
>
> This identification of Wendes with Vandals is the so-called
> Wendland-theory proposed by Walter Steller and others, very
> popular under modern German right-wing extremists, but never
> acknowledged by any serious historian, linguist or archeologist.


I agree, Wendland and Vandals have nothing to do with each other, but
the theory was apparently reused only recently by a Vandal exhibition
in Sweden, were the Wendland seemed to have been suggested as final
refuge of the African Vandals after 533AD. Which is nonsense of
course.

cheers
Dirk




You are a member of the Gothic-L list.  To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe at egroups.com>.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/