Ynt: [gothic-l] Re: byzantium

[Francisc Czobor]

Hello, Osman

This is off-topic, but I think that the statement "rulers of Danubian
and Volga Bulgars, Hungarians, Croats, Great (Ukrain) Bulgars and
Balkars of Caucasus were from the same family" is based rather on
legends than on historical facts. For instance, the rulers of Bulgars
(both Volga and Danubian) are allegedly descendants of Avitochol, that
is identifiable with the Hunish king Attila. It is probably plausible.
But the Hungarian rulers of the Arpad dinasty claimed also to be
related to Attila, fact that can be not historically attested. Many
ruling houses claimed such affiliations that were based only on
legends, mostly created ad-hoc, to support their political claims.

Francisc

--- In gothic-l at y..., "TURKIYE DERGISI" <turktarihi at t...> wrote:
> Burgaz is, to me, associated with Porgas. It is a Proto-Bulgarian
name. One
> of the early Croatian kings, who are of the same stock as the
> Proto-Bulgarian khans, is called Porgas, under whom Croats accepted
> Christianity. Another Porgas was a Bulgar (Tatar) ruler on, as far
as I
> remember, Mordvins, who used to live as Bulgar vassals just on the
north of
> the Volga Bulgar state. This is very normal, as rulers of Danubian
and Volga
> Bulgars, Hungarians, Croats, Great (Ukrain) Bulgars and Balkars of
Caucasus
> were from the same family. Sources do not mention any Porgas among
> Proto-Bulgarians, but we have reasons to suppose that they used this
name as
> their kins.
>
> Another theory may be based on the Altaic clan of Bordjs, who are
likely the
> same group as Barsils of Orkhon inscriptions. They were among
Kumans. In
> Russia and Ukraine slavicized Bordjs became Burdjevs, in ex-Yugo
area there
> are Burdjevichs, who became Burcoglus in Turkey. In Egypt we can
find
> El-Borg family descending from Kuman-Qypchaks who established
Medieval
> Mamluk state there. Some members of this clan or tribe were
assimilated
> among Georgian in caucasia, but major part is to be grandfathers of
the
> Borchali living in Eastern Georgia. But those are no longer Kuman,
but Oghuz
> Turks, as a result of long neighborhood with Azeris. The second part
of the
> city name is As, name of a medieval Irano-Turcic tribe. The As were
not able
> to defend themselves in very upheaval of the N. Black Sea region and
Eurasia
> steps, thus always refugeed to other stronger formations, causing
usual
> double naming: Burt-As, Kenger-As, Alan-As, etc. Askal, the oldest
known
> name of Kiev, and Astarhan, in nortern coast of the Khazar sea bears
their
> name. Today's Caucasian Osets descent from them. Kumans were very
crowded in
> the both sides of Danube, and established the second Bulgarian state
in
> 1169. Thus, a Bordj-As union might have given its name to the city.
Other
> cities and towns in Turkish Thrace seem to be named under Ottoman,
since all
> those cities once had their Greek names.
>
> Regards,
>
> Osman
>
> ...


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