[gothic-l] Heruls was Re: More on the Gothic-Slavic link

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

--- In gothic-l at y..., dirk at s... wrote:
> --- In gothic-l at y..., "Oskar Andersson" <o.andersson at g...> wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Andreas,
> > >
> > > yes, I initially did not see Sigmund's own correction. Your
other
> > > explanations seem very reasonable to me. Do you think that
> Helmold's
> > > mentioning of Heruli at the Havel should be explained in the
same
> way?
> > > As Heruli did not exist since the middle of the 6th century,
> another
> > > explanation would be a simple confusion of existing or similar
> > > sounding names as other documents of the area (from Magdeburg)
> also
> > > seem to report the name Heruli in the 11th century at the Havel.
> >
> > A correction, I know indeed that Heruls settled in Illyria in 512,
> and some are said to have returned to Scandinavia - even some
> returning for a new King from Thule (Procopius). But, to rephrase my
> question, what do we know about their time in Illyria after 550?
Does
> the Haemus area display any remains of the last Herul settlements?
> Does the region display any memories of German migratory movements,
> like place names, etc.
>
>
> Hi Oskar,
>
> my understanding is that the Heruls basically ceased to exist as a
> tribal or political entity with the defeat by the Langobards in
around
> 510AD. The sources are slighly contradictory here, while Procopius
> mentiones a Herulic kingdom in Illyria after that, other Langobardic
> authors (Langobardic history is often surprisingly positive about
the
> role of the Heruls) states that they had no kings after the defeat
of
> about 510AD. In any case they played no role after that. The so
called
> 'Table of Nations' which is often dated to about 520AD does not
> mention this Illyrian kingdom of the Heruls and it will not have
been
> of great significance at any rate. Certainly, individual Heruls are
> mentioned in the course of the 6th century, but I think that we can
> safely say that the tribe of the Heruls ceased to exsist in the
course
> of the 6th century.
>
> As for books, I am not aware of one book on Heruls. I got my
> information from different books and articles, but I am sure that
> Andreas or Troels who know much more about the Heruls will be able
to
> provide some useful sources.
>
>
> cheers,
> Dirk
>
>

Hi again Oscar,

I realised that I did not attempt to answer one part of your question.
In short, I think there are no traces of the Illyrian Heruls to be
found today.  I would be very suprised if any archaeological or
toponymical evidence could attest their existence. The king of these
Heruls was likely not more powerful than a provincial Roman official
if at all. In fact, if we belief Procopius, the Herulic king after the
defeat by the Langobards, was virtually indistinguishable from the
rest of the population, without special respect or status. Therefore,
it is not surprising that  Theoderic, who was keen to build alliances
with other tribes completely ignore this Illyrian kingdom of the
Heruls, who after all were his one-time allies.

cheers,
Dirk





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