Fwd: Re: Fwd: [gothic-l] Names of Heruls

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

>
> Dirk
>
> There are reports about two Thule-events separated by at least 35
> years. We are only discussing the last one about the return of a
> royal candidate a few years before Procopius wrote, as I agree that
> he was not be able to describe the earlier route exactly.
>
> "Datios" and "Aorthos" were born in Scandinavia - probably opposite
> most of the other Heruls we discuss here. A mix of people could have
> changed names or pronounciation.


Troels,

that is of course possible.



>
> "Oxos" was not described as a tyrant by Procopius, but as a very
weak
> king.


I used the term tyrant only because Greeks often called monarchs as
such. The name Ochos (the greek x is a ch) must have been well known
among educated readers. The same is true for Datius and probably
Aordos. Thus, even if Procopius mis-understood these names by
rendering them in the current form he must have been aware that he was
adding additional meaning to these characters. For example, Procopius
was not fond of Heruls (to say the least) as he reagarded them as
disgusting barbarians. Greeks were not fond of Partians (to say the
least) evoking Parthian names in his report about Heruls might have
served a purpose. (Unfortunately, I don't know who he regarded the
Milanese Bishop and later saint Datius).


If the name was a part of a manipulation, Ochus should have
> been the name of Datius.
>
> I do not see the name Gretes involved in those chapters of
Procopius,
> but a mound close to my house marking the old "main road" between
> Sweden and the Continent is called Grettes Hoej, and the nearby town
> is called Farum because of the "far" marked by the mound - the same
> word as used in Fara.


You will admitt that this 'additional' evidence for the Thule-report
is somewhat farfetched. The sylabyl 'Far-' can be found in many
placenames and is not specifically Herulic or Gothic. This king Gretes
or Grepes is mentioned as the predessor of Ochos of the Illyrian
Heruls, (according to Dahn) he will not have had anything to do with
Sweden and I dobut that this Swedish road was named after him.



>Last winter I found out, that nearby at
another
> track of the road the remains of a cikadafibula from the Danube-
> region (5th century) was found.


Indeed, East-Germanic 'Zikadenfibeln' were very fashionable for a
while and can be found over a very large area of Europe.
However, on the notion of archaeological evidence, the spread of
artificial skull deformations should be a good indication for
mirgations of Germanic people who had been under Hunnic domination.
Among others J. Werner has pointed out in 'Archaelogie des
Attilareiches' that artificial skull deformations are concentrated in
areas were Heruls are believed to have settled (Moravia, Neusiedler
See, etc.). A similar view was expressed by J. Tejral, as you know. As
this practice remained in use in northern territories like Thuringia
well into the 6th century, the pagan Heruls of Thule might be expected
to have followed the same fashion for a while. However, as Werner and
others point out no such practice was ever encountered in Scandinavia.

cheers
Dirk




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