[gothic-l] Re: Heruli / Harii

[Dr. Dirk Faltin <dirk@smra.co.uk>]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Troels Brandt <trbrandt at p...>"
<trbrandt at p...> wrote:
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh at y...> wrote:
> >
> > --- "Troels Brandt <trbrandt at p...>"
> > <trbrandt at p...> wrote:
> > > ........
> > > In the same way Tacitus' Harii is just a translation
> > > of a Germanic
> > > name which elsewhere is unknown to us though maybe
> > > deriving from
> > > HarjaR
>
> ..........
>
> > > Would it make sense to add the diminutive suffix
> > > "-ila" to
> > > HarjaR/Harii?
>
> I can add that his way to use "-ila" has earlier been mentioned
> regarding Attila - which is not so far in thinking from a Herulian
> earl though being a proper name.
>
> > ******GK: Perhaps the excellent linguists on Cybalist
> > might solve some (or all) of these linguistic
> > problems?
>
> I think we have excellent linguists here too.
>
> >  I see that I've jotted down in my Pliny
> > notes that he knew of "Hirri" where Tacitus spoke of
> > "Harii".
>
> I agree that the Hirri is a possibility, but that was earlier and
> will not change my arguments. However this is not so close to the
> usual HarjaR-explanation and I have seen the Hirri combined with
the
> Sciri too.
>
> > I'll have a look at my copy of Mahomedov
> > (2001) and see what he has to say about the Eruli in
> > the context of his analysis of the Chernyakhiv
> > culture.******
>
> Thanks, I will appreciate that - but they will be different to
> separate if they just were a mixed population at the southeast side
> of the Goths - all being companions of the Huns and Attila later.
>
> Troels



Hi Troels,

that is an interesting idea with the Harii and/or Hirri beeing the
predecessors of the Heruli. As you know Pal Lakatos sort of assumes
that the Hirri mentioned by Plinius are the same as the later Heruli.
Perhaps the development went along similar lines as Iutes and Eudoses
or Iutes and Iuthungi? It might be possible, that the later names
mean something like the offspring or decendents of the former.
However, this is highly speculative. Let us know what you find.

Cheers,
Dirk






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