[gothic-l] Re: Heruli / Harii

[Troels Brandt <trbrandt@post9.tele.dk>]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Dirk Faltin <dirk at s...>"
<dirk at s...> wrote:

>
> Hi Troels,
>
> that is an interesting idea with the Harii and/or Hirri beeing the
> predecessors of the Heruli. As you know Pal Lakatos sort of assumes
> that the Hirri mentioned by Plinius are the same as the later
Heruli.
> Perhaps the development went along similar lines as Iutes and
Eudoses
> or Iutes and Iuthungi? It might be possible, that the later names
> mean something like the offspring or decendents of the former.
> However, this is highly speculative. Let us know what you find.
>

Hi Dirk

I agree that this is speculative - and I do not expect to be able to
prove such a connection by analyzing the names. I am trying to
exclude possibilities, but reading Makaev I have been aware that an
earlier explanation of "ErilaR" has been excluded by a mistake.

I do not think the development is similar to the Iutes. Not so many
centuries earlier the Goths were formed by different tribes just
north of the Hirri/Harii, and I guess that the Harii simply were
pressed against southeast when the Goths expanded in that direction
and that they became known as people from the north/swamps seen from
the Romans.

The Western Heruls could be the army of Naulobates going into Roman
service after their surrender to the emperor Gallienus near
Thessaloniki 268 AD. We know that Naulobates got a high Roman title.
They may have been moved as mercenaries to the border areas of the
Rhine in order to avoid conflicts with their kinsmen in the Gothic
area. Alans were used the century before in England. Therefore a
group of harrying Eruli could be met first time in France in 286 AD.
Of course some of the Harii could instead have moved directly from
Upper Vistula to the Rhine when the Goths expanded, but the change of
name is easier to explain if it followed a group from the Black Sea.

I think this is the most simple way to explain the mysteries about
the disappearence of the feared, harrying Harii and the following
origin of the feared, harrying Heruls combining the historical
fragments we know. But I am guessing.

This has been discussed before and I do not think the "ErilaR"-
inscriptions has anything to do with the migrating Heruls of
Procopius as some of the inscriptions are from the 5th century, but
some Western Heruls from Frisia could be the "ErilaR". That is the
background for my question after reading Makaev.

Troels




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