[gothic-l] Re: The "Goths" were what they were, dispite all biases

[AElfric and Ursula]

<<The idea that *most* Goths were NOT Christians in the 5th century is
utterly baseless.>>

Well, if you think that, I guess you will have to take that up with Heather, Burns, Thompson, and the other leading authorities on the subject who seem to agree the Goths were not devout Christians in the 5th century.

<<The Goths were NOT afraid that Christianity would undermine
that "part of Gothic identity which was founded in their common
inherited beliefs". The missionary work must have been extremely
successful to judge by their early and complete conversion. We no
nothing at all about any "common inherited beliefs" before that.>>

You are certainly free to disagree with the leading authors on the subject whom I quote, however, your claim that the Goths had an "early and complete converison" is completely unsubstantiated by any evidence.

<<The conversion was neither "surface" nor "insignificant", but below
the surface and very significant.>>

What is the evidence for this?

<<The "official" Christianity of the Ostrogoths was quite real. We no
nothing at all about any "common inherited beliefs" before that.>>

I agree, the Christianity of the Goths was merely "official."  As for the common inherited beliefs of the Goths before that, it is true that there is little preserved, however, there is some very revealing information about it.  See the _Passion of St Saba_ and the article by Andreas Swarcs in _The Visigoths from the Migration Period to the Seventh Century_ Woodridge: Boydell Press, 1999, edited by Heather.


<<It made them a newly Christian people. The Goths quickly became
instrumental in the spread of Christianity.>>

Only a very small handful of Goths ever participated in such missionary work, which the Gothic people on the whole were hardly involved in.

<<Theoderic was fully Christian. We know nothing at all about
any "traditional ceremonies" before his time.>>

This is simply not true, as anyone who has read even Jordanes _Getica_ will know.

<<The Goths eager acceptance of Christianity demonstrates how much
progress had been made in very little time.>>

I find it interesting how some are quick to accuse modern Pagans of projecting their beliefs onto the ancient Germanic peoples, whereas in fact many Christians seem to have a far more reified and romantic view of the Goths, which is completely unsubstantiated by the sources.  While there are definately both modern pagans and Christians who hold romantic views of the Goths, I find much more worthwhile are the perspectives of those Christians, Pagans and Athiests whose arguments can be substantiated by the primary sources and supported by the leading authorities on these matters.

Albareiks


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