[gothic-l] Re: "Eruli", "Goths", "Danes" and wherefrom the runes

Mon Dec 23 09:33:05 UTC 2002

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, Tore Gannholm <tore.gannholm at s...>
wrote:
> >
> >In Menghin's book (Die Langobarden) she is definitely called
> >daughter of Rodolph, I will see if he states a direct source. At
any
> >rate it seems likely that she was either Rodolph's daughter or
> >another member of the original Danube Herulic royal clan. Overall,
> >there can hardly be any doubt that the Heruls were scattered around
> >the region after their defeat of 508/9. Parts of them had moved to
> >Italy, which I think was the most prefereable option, since Italy
> >had been the target of scores of barbarians before them. Another
> >group joined the Langobards just as defeated enemies were
> >intergrated into the Langobards at other occasions and as is
> >indicated by subsequent events. One group may also have settled in
> >modern Bavaria and contributed to the Bavarian ethnogenesis, as is
> >claimed by many secondary sources. Family ties of the Bavarian
> >Agilofings with Heruls like Fara and Sindvalt may support this
view.
> >A further group of which Procopius had some knowledge first tried
to
> >make a living in the deserted Rugiland. However, they suffered
> >starvation there and sought refuge among the Gepids, who mistreated
> >them. Too weak to opose the Gepids they decided to seek refuge
among
> >the Romans. Of this group, Procopius reports that a further group
> >split off to travel north to Thule. I think this secenario is well
> >supported by historical sources.
> >
> >cheers
> >Dirk
>
> Dirk,
> I am sorry taking it up again but you continue referring to
> Procopius. But where does he say the Heruls took refuge among the
> Gepids?
>
> "HISTORY OF THE WARS, VI. xv. 1-6
>
> XV
>
> WHEN the Eruli, being defeated by the Lombards in the above-
mentioned
> battle, migrated from their ancestral homes, some of them, as has
> been told by me above, made their home in the country of Illyricum,
> but the rest were averse to crossing the Ister River, but settled
at
> the very extremity of the world; at any rate, these men, led by
many
> of the royal blood, traversed all the nations of the Sclaveni one
> after the other, and after next crossing a large tract of barren
> country, they came to the Varni,2 as they are called. After these
> they passed by the nations of the Dani,3 without suffering violence
> at  the hands of the barbarians there. Coming thence to the ocean,
> they took to the sea, and putting in at Thule,4 remained there on
the
> island."

Tore,

have a look at Procopius VI, xiv. 23-27

"And since the enemy followed them up, the most of of them fell on
the field of battle and only a few succedded in saving themselves."

So, according to Procopius most Heruls were killed in the battle
against the Langobards.

"For this reason the Eruli were no longer able to tarry in their
ancestral homes, but departing from their as quickly as possible ..."

Hence, the Eruli were too few to maintain a kingdom, but had to flee
in great haste.

"But when they reached a land where the Rogi dwelt of old ... . But
since they were pressed by famine, ...., they removed from there not
long afterwards ..."

So these remaining Heruls' first choice of residence (Rugiland)
turned out to be a failure. They suffered starvation and had to flee
again.

".... and came to a place close to the country of the Gepaedes. And
at first the Gepaedes permitted them to dwell there and be neighbours
to them since they came as suppliants. But afterwards for no good
reason the Gepaedes began to practice unholy deeds upon hem. For they
violated their women and seized their cattle and other property, and
abstained from no wickedness whatever, and finally began an unjust
attack upon them."

Here you have the Gepids. The remaining Heruls, who had survived the
battle and starvation, where now mistreated, robbed and raped and
eventually attacked by the Gepids. Their second choice of residence
had also turned out to be a failure.

"... And the Eruli, unable to bear all this any longer, crossed the
ister River and decided to live as neighbours to the Romans in that
region: this was during the reign of Anastasius, who received them
with grea friendliness and allowed them to settle where they were."

Finally, the long suffering (I suppose a couple of years had past
since the defeat of 508/9AD) Heruls decided to become subjects of the
Emperor and crossed the Danube. This point is also confirmed by
Marcellinus Comes. At this point there is no mentioning of Thule.
Only in History of the Wars, VI, remembered Procopius that there was
a further group that split off from the remaining Heruls before they
crossed the Danube.

>
> As far as I know the "Herulian lots" in Italy were instituted by
> Odoaker and therefore belong to an earlier time period.

Yes, that was earlier. However, Cassiodorus informs us that a second
group of Heruls arrived in Italy after the destruction of their
kingdom in 508/9. As I said several times before, the exact reference
can be retrieved from the Germanic-L archive, where it was provided
by Andreas. Clearly, Italy held a great attraction to
most 'barbarians' and since there were already Heruls living in
Italy, Italy was likely a prefered choice for some of the Heruls.

>
> Also could you please point out where Paulus Diaconus talks about
Heruls.
> I rather prefer primary sources than second and third hand sources.

In general, I tend to trust the analysis by Pohl, Menghin and others,
but if you want to search the original sources have a look at this
site:

http://www.oeaw.ac.at/gema/lango_origo.htm

Dirk

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