[gothic-l] Re: "Eruli", "Goths", "Danes" and wherefrom the runes

[Dr. Dirk Faltin <dirk@smra.co.uk>]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Troels Brandt <trbrandt at p...>"
<trbrandt at p...> wrote:
> Hi Dirk
>
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Dirk Faltin <dirk at s...>"
> <dirk at s...> wrote:
> >
> > In Menghin's book (Die Langobarden) she is definitely called
> > daughter of Rodolph, I will see if he states a direct source.
>
> I have used similar books, but I have realized that there was no
real
> source behind but only doubtfull reasoning based on a 2 centuries
> younger remark by Paulus Diaconis, who did not mention Rodolph in
> this connection. I do not have Menghin's book at hand anymore and
> look forward to hear your result.
>
> Regarding the other questions we discussed I do only object against
> certain details and your uncritical way to present reasoning or
> speculation of the scholars. I agree however that Heruls played a
> certain role in all these kingdoms too. Actually my point has all
the
> time been that the Heruls were not as crushed as Procopius claimed.


Hi Troels,

that is always the problem with those sources. What to believe and
what not to believe. Procopius clearly describes the surviving Heruls
as a very delapidated people. The fact that their kingdom was
definitely destroyed once and for all. The fact that they were unable
to set up a new kingdom. The fact that they were scattered all over
the region all seems to support Procopius' report in my view. Or to
you your argument. There is no reason for Procopius to lie about
starvation, abuse and decimation of the Heruls after the defeat of
508/9.  However, you are quite right the scattered survivors were
able to play important roles under whatever overlordship they ended
up.








> Claiming later acceptance and important roles among the Lombards,
the
> Ostrogoths, the Bavarians and the Roman army it must be difficult
for
> you to deny that the Heruls probably played a major role at the
place
> where their southern kinsmen had to call for new candidates of
royal
> blood - Scandinavia. This was as earlier thoroughly discussed the
> place where the two contemperary historians, Jordanes and
Procopius,
> placed Herulian settlements.


The Jordanes quote is, according to Hachmann and Svennung problematic
if I remember correctly. Both authors regarded it as later addition
to a list of Scandinavian tribal names in order to strenghten and
emphasis the alliance between the Danube Heruls and the Ostrogoths.

cheers,
Dirk


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